Version R Subframe - ARB Brackets

[spetz]

Hi guys,

I know the Version R front subframe is strengthened a bit.

Just wondering if anyone knows whether the normal FTO subframe can take the 20mm Version R swaybar?

The swaybar brackets are a different part number between the Version R and the GPX and I am not sure if that means that a GPX subframe + Version R swaybar bracket + Version R swaybar will work or not

[FTODreams]

On shiggz's car we put an Evo 4-6 front sway bar on and it definitly fits. The only problem is that the bushings are much bigger and no amount of messing around with GPX brackets will get it to fit. So yes you just need the GPVR or Evo 3+ sway bar brackets for it to work other than that there are no other problems.

[spetz]

Thanks for that.

I am not sure the stuffing around to go Version R swaybars is worth it or not in the end though.

They are about $650 new from Mitsubishi (including brackets and bushes) but that doesn't include the lower control arms or end links.

[spetz]

BTW what rear swaybar was used on his car?
Evo swaybar is 23mm from memory which seems like it'd create a fair bit of understeer and the rear swaybar setup of an FTO doesn't allow for thick swaybars (in the sense that the brackets start flexing and make the swaybar less effective)

[Bennoz]

We found a way around the rear brackets flexing. Later model CH lancer brackets are reinforced.

[spetz]

I have the whiteline reinforced ones but I am not sure which are stronger.
But adjusting the whiteline rear swaybar stiffness makes no difference to handling and I suspect this is due to the fact that the weak link is the brackets so after a certain stiffness there is just more flex and no other positive effect.

I am unsure whether going Version R front and rear swaybars is worth the $600+ premium and headache over just GPX swaybars on a car with coilovers.

[bjk]

We found a way around the rear brackets flexing. Later model CH lancer brackets are reinforced.

Was it CH or CJ?

I have the whiteline reinforced ones but I am not sure which are stronger.
But adjusting the whiteline rear swaybar stiffness makes no difference to handling and I suspect this is due to the fact that the weak link is the brackets so after a certain stiffness there is just more flex and no other positive effect.

I am unsure whether going Version R front and rear swaybars is worth the $600+ premium and headache over just GPX swaybars on a car with coilovers.

I think whoever Bennoz got his swaybars off are much cheaper than OEM (Selby/Signature? I forget, it's on here somewhere). Might be a better option and you can choose your thickness.

[spetz]

I have whiteline swaybars on the car now but I just want to go to OEM as I bought track spec coilovers with stiff springs.

Overall I am not a fan of aftermarket parts with a few exceptions and just want stock swaybars

[shiggz]

$650 is ridiculous imo. I got my 24mm adjustable Signature/Selby swaybar landed in Perth for ~$320. Brackets and bushes really aren't a big deal when upgrading swaybays. They're easy to find and are quite cheap. You're still saving yourself $300+ from just the swaybar if you get the Signature/Selby one. Depending on your grip levels / handling characteristics, you'll most likely have to upgrade the brackets on the rear droplinks; just fabricate some up, because all the purchase-able ones are very weak, and will shear.

Same sort of thing with the front swaybar. I have the Evo 4 Whiteline swaybar (24mm) with an adjustable bracket to increase/decrease stiffness, however, for that you will need GPVR hubs / Evo hubs for the droplinks to bolt onto. Again bushes and corresponding brackets need to be bought since the swaybar is considerably bigger, and the stock stuff cant really be modified to fit. Can still get these Whiteline/Selby swaybars for cheaper than new Mitsubishi ones.

Have a look through the first page of my thread, has a little bit of info about my suspension setup if you're curious

http://ftoaustralia.com/v3/viewtopic.ph ... ar#p407586

[FTODreams]

If you're worried about the rear bracket flexing still even after using the reinforced ones. Just get someone to weld in a steel rod from top (where it bolts to the body of the car) to the bottom. So it makes a triangle. I did that and they're definitely stiff enough now. That's a cheap fix.

If it's costing you 650 for the sway bar set up. After you include in control arms and sway bar links (at least $200 for the whiteline ones) you'll probably be up at the $1k mark and that's a hell of a lot for just sway bars.

[FTODreams]

Also not sure how you drive on the track but I'd be going after bigger sway bars still (Selby's is awesome quality) not stiffer springs (within reason) for track duties. You want to have weight transfer over the front tires in a corner else you'll find you'll probably go slower. I.e stiff coil overs stop the weight from compressing the springs whereas the swaybar stops the outside wheel lifting and allows some compression in the suspension.

But that's just me and my opinion take it with a pinch of salt. Everyone has a different set up that they like.

[spetz]

Thanks guys,

@shiggz,
I currently have whiteline front and rear swaybars and wanted to go OEM because I feel they are too stiff and also I am a fan of OEM parts on a car.
I have a Lancer and I believe the Version R swaybar should bolt onto the lancer lower control arms but I am not certain.

@FTODreams,
The reinforced brackets already have that rod that makes them into a triangle but as adjusting the stiffness on the whiteline swaybar makes no difference to handling I have concluded that this must be due to the stiffness being absorbed by additional flex.

Either way though I don't want to keep the whiteline swaybars nor do I want to go the Shelby swaybars and just want OEM.
I recently bought MCA Reds and Josh suggested I run stock swaybars.

At this stage given the cost and difficult on procuring items I will be going GPX F&R swaybars and then considering going GPvR depending on handling characteristics.

My spring rates are even all round so this should eliminate much of the understeer (since stock cars have softer rear springs).

[Vectose]

@Shiggz No need to change hubs. It's the lower control arm that you need VR or EVO.

[spetz]

You would only need the VR LCA but the Evo LCA requires the Evo hub/knuckle as well as the FTO hub won't connect.
And then you need different brakes due to the different bolt spacing.

[Vectose]

Can change the ball joint in the EVO arm with a FTO one.

[Vectose]

I'm running EVO 4 arms with a FTO ball joint and GTO hubs

[Bennoz]

FTOs are horribly under-swaybarred. The more I stiffened up under my mine, the faster my lap times got. The chassis may as well be made from play-doh.

[FTODreams]

@spetz normally I'd argue that point but those guys at MCA know what they're doing. You didn't buy FTO specific MCA's did you? You just bought the CE lancer ones right? I've been organising getting coil overs from them for ages now and trying to get them to put it to their product store.

Bennoz is right though. The frame flexes like sh*t. I've got strut braces front and rear but there is nothing keeping the chassis rails from flexing. If you could do more frame reinforcements you might find changing stiffness on your swaybar does something. I picked up an X brace that usually sits behind an evos rear seat in the boot so I was gonna see if that does anything.

I'm firm believer in the jacked up door test. If you Jack up one side of the car and your door doesn't close properly. There is too much chassis flex.

[spetz]

@Vectose,
Is there a need to modify the LCAs to fit the FTO ball joint?
And do Evo IV LCAs have the tab for the VR swaybar?

@Bennoz,
I always thought that FTOs (as with most Mitsubishi) had a fairly stiff chassis relative to other cars of the era. I remember Civics/Integras of that era flexed lots (going by FTODreams jacking test).

@FTODreams,
To be fair Josh at MCA suggested I go the Version R swaybars not just GPX. He was not familiar with the Version R FTO but I explained it to him it is what a Type R Integra is to a VTi-R Integra.
The MCA coilovers I got were for the CE (they are the same anyway) and have the FTO tabs for the front swaybar. As these are the reds they valving and spring rates were customized to my needs. Josh spent over an hour talking to me about these coilovers to get customize them for what I need.

As far as the swaybars being ineffective due to chassis flex I do not believe this to be the case.
The reason for that is that when I stiffened up the Tein SS rear dampers there was a drastic change in handling, yet when I stiffened up the rear swaybar I noticed no change in handling. So obviously stiffening up the rear is helping and if stiffening up the swaybar is doing nothing then there must be flex in the brackets.


I ended up buying GPX swaybars (pick-a-part for $23 each) so will be trying these out and will consider getting VR swaybars but further down the track

[Vectose]

No modifications required to the EVO control arms to fit the FTO ball joints.

And yes EVO IV onwards have the bracket for version R swaybar.