rpw: insulator blocks

FTO Club of Australia Group Buys. Want something cheap this is where to find it. The best deals for all our members

Moderators: IMC, Club Staff

User avatar
Mitsiman
Approved FTO Australia Trader
Posts: 245
jedwabna poszewka promocja
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:00 pm
Location: Perth
Contact:

Post by Mitsiman »

Go for a drive on your vehicle.
Place your hand on top of your intake manifold and notice how hot it is.
Fit 1 X RPW thermoblock kit to the intake manifold divider plate and throttle body

Now go for a drive and feel the top of the manifold again - the tempature of the intake manifold will now be at least 50% less than previously.

And since the air tempature sensor is located directly in the manifold, this iwll now adjust your fuel / ign curves to be more aggressive to suit the cooler incoming air charge into the engine, especially when sitting idling for a while etc.

http://www.rpw.com.au/Products/Intake%2 ... blocks.htm
Racing Performance Works - Mitsubishi Performance Specialists
shue
Oldtimer
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: 1000 posts n still whoring

Post by shue »

how much are they mitsiman? and before and after figures?
EURO
Oldtimer
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by EURO »

thermo block manifold gasket 86.50 plus GST
throttle body gasket $43.50 + gst....

is that right? thats from website..
User avatar
FTO338
Oldtimer
Posts: 6712
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 6:00 pm
Location: Port Melbourne: Pimping with RX400h, B200 Turbo.

Post by FTO338 »

Since i've got the extractor already, I'm more interested on the Insulator Block spacers. Are you going to do any special on them Mitsiman/Dav?? :D
DISCLAIMER: The above text is the personal opinion of the author and does not represent the indisputable truth. The author is not responsible for any deaths, injuries or mental illness caused by the above statments.
EURO
Oldtimer
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by EURO »

opps i have listed wrong item me thinks.
User avatar
Mitsiman
Approved FTO Australia Trader
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:00 pm
Location: Perth
Contact:

Post by Mitsiman »

The pricing on the internett is wrong need to update the price list.

The correct price is $43.00 for teh throttle body gasket and $127.00 for the intake manifold divider gasket.

I have not done any dyno testing with the manifold gaskets, but as said, it is something you can physically measure with a tool or by hand and colder intake manifold especially with the air temp mounted direclty into the hot metal, can only ever be a good thing.

Independant testing on various cars over the years all show gains of around 1 - 2 hp at the wheels with increased torque. But every car is different. I consider this as always an extenstion and the final piece of any cold air induction kit for the vehicle. What is the use of pumping cold air in to only be heated up by the intake manifold?
Racing Performance Works - Mitsubishi Performance Specialists
User avatar
smorison
The Godfather
Posts: 2461
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: In the TRUCK!!!
Contact:

Post by smorison »

i'm happy to pay for dyno testing, temperature, mixture and timing testing if you send them to me... they can then live on this site forever as an independant test on a specific FTO with a specific configuration...

If they make what i would consider to be reasonable gains i'll then buy them...

when you say increased torque by a % or 1-2nm?
shue
Oldtimer
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: 1000 posts n still whoring

Post by shue »

is this on group buy now?
mxysxy
Oldtimer
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Post by mxysxy »

It will be very helpful if smorison can test this unit first to see the
- temp drop
- performance gain
I would like to have this unit if it will drop the underhood temp, but what is the drop & gain exactly?
I have been running firewall temp reader for about 6 months constantly now. It always stays around 50-60 C.
If we can drop this temp, the affects of CAI will improve sharply.
kid_dynamite
Veteran Mechanic
Posts: 836
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:00 pm
Location: sydney

Post by kid_dynamite »

Interested in a set - as per MSN conversation David.
Last edited by kid_dynamite on Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
FTO338
Oldtimer
Posts: 6712
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 6:00 pm
Location: Port Melbourne: Pimping with RX400h, B200 Turbo.

Post by FTO338 »

So what price are we talking about here? I'm interested in a full set :D
DISCLAIMER: The above text is the personal opinion of the author and does not represent the indisputable truth. The author is not responsible for any deaths, injuries or mental illness caused by the above statments.
barfy
Mechanic
Posts: 779
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Adelaide

Post by barfy »

i got these at the sametime as the extractors, FPR and manifold/TB setup and i must admit i can actually put my hand on the manifold after the car is driven pretty hard .... I would say that you would acheive maximum gains with the whole package and even better with a piggy back system to tune it all ....
[img]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r103/barfy76/barfycopy1.jpg[/img]
cb
Grease Monkey
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: Newcastle

Post by cb »

im interested too,
How hard is it to install?
User avatar
dannyboyau
Veteran Mechanic
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: that speck disappearing in the distance

Post by dannyboyau »

how thick is the thermoblock intake manifold divider gasket?
User avatar
smorison
The Godfather
Posts: 2461
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: In the TRUCK!!!
Contact:

Post by smorison »

mxysxy wrote:It will be very helpful if smorison can test this unit first to see the
- temp drop
- performance gain
I would like to have this unit if it will drop the underhood temp, but what is the drop & gain exactly?
I have been running firewall temp reader for about 6 months constantly now. It always stays around 50-60 C.
If we can drop this temp, the affects of CAI will improve sharply.

i did a huge amount of data logging when we were building intakes and boxes... its quite interesting to see how quickly things can change when its built properly... my final test is part of the "fto project" if anyone is interested.

I really would like to test this as i'm very keen to see the differences made
User avatar
Mitsiman
Approved FTO Australia Trader
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:00 pm
Location: Perth
Contact:

Post by Mitsiman »

This thread definitly got me confused a little, we have people talking about extractors and thermo block kits at the same time.

To clarify - firstly this thread has been split so if you want to talk about the extractor group buy, then please comment in the origonal thread for that.

This particular thread is on the thermobock gasket kits.

The thickness of the units are approx 3mm considerably thicker than stock. When fitting, you normally loosen all the bolts on the support frame at the rear of the manifold at the base, and can shift it up enough on the bolts to re fit everything nicely. At the worst, you may need to file / elongate teh bolt holes on the back support plate to provide a little more clearance.

On the throttle body face, there is no need at all for any modifications.

As one person has already said - there is a visible difference in intake manifold tempatures something you can physically feel the difference on whcih I think says more than anything else, what these do and how well they work

As for dyno testing of them, I don't think that it is going to show any tremendous results on teh dyno. The only way you could I think actually do any serious back to back test, is have the car with the stock gaskets on the dyno, do a couple of power runs, let idle for say 15 minutes, do another power run to simulate the true heating up of the manifold etc.

And then repeat the same thig with the new replacement gaskets.

Even then I am very hesitant to say that on a normal roller dyno, you woudl see any real results because of there variations you get with tyre pressures, location on the dyno and there inability to record very minor changes like a 1hp variation for example.

By all means you are welcome to test a set, but if it was being done on a proper Hub dyno where there is no variation of tyre pressures, locations etc, then that I beleive would be far more credible, but even then I think these units are something that is better measured with a laser tempature gun.

No need for a dyno - go for a drive in your car, laser read the upper nad lower intake manifold tempature.

Fit the new units, then laser read the new tempatures. If the manifold tempature is lower, as it shoudl be, then they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do

The biggest area of gain, is usually mostly when you are either sitting at lights stationary and then accelerate, where the manifold has had a lot of time to heat up as the prime example.

To clarify, I am not against dyno testing of the product and if you wish to do it thats fine. But it woudl require more than just a power run to provide any credible testing method and even then, my concern being a normal roller dyno also stands. They are just not accurate enough for very minor changes like this type of mod.

For peoples interest, check the following link in regard to hub dyno's as an accurate tool for testing purposes and tuning. This is the reason why we only use this type of dyno ourselves due to its repeatability.

http://www.dynapackusa.com/testimonials.htm

Anyway regardless of anything else, if you want to test them no problems.
Racing Performance Works - Mitsubishi Performance Specialists
mxysxy
Oldtimer
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Post by mxysxy »

I have a question;
As far as I understand these insulator blocks reducing the heat connection between internal engine component and intake manifold, or something like this so, the manifold is getting kept cooler, as a result the air as well that just got in to the engine from outside. Is this correct?
Does internal engine block runs even hotter as a result, due to internal heat is not released to outside?
Does cooling fan runs less as a result of the temp under bonnet reduced? If yes, we might have a heating trouble which may not be realised in advance. The block gets hotter as it works, but the engine temp reader may read it lower then what it is.
Final question, I thought most of the heat under the bonnet occurs from exhaust extractors rather then intake. Is this correct?
It sounds to me that these insulator blocks combined with heat shielded extractors may reduce the heat under the bonnet significantly from 50-60 C to 38-45 C. Is this a correct assumption?
User avatar
Mitsiman
Approved FTO Australia Trader
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:00 pm
Location: Perth
Contact:

Post by Mitsiman »

The insulators only reduce the heat transfer from the lower manifold to the upper manifold and also from teh throttle body to the plenum chamber.

They will not cause any overheating issues at all. The lower manifold is still only absorbing heat from its contact with the cylidner head, which a portion of is released as heat waves, teh rest once it gets to a finite point is absorbed back into the cooling system and controlled via radiator etc.

The vehicle will not run any hotter / colder on the water temps than previously. We aer not talking about a major change to the engine in terms of operation of water cooling.

Most of the heat is from the radiation of heat fro the extractors. BUt the cylinder heads are in direct contact witht eh lower manifodl, which does need to be heated to provide some atomisation of fuel from the injectors to some degree. BUt the upper manifold is only heated by its contact to the lower manifold and throttle body.

With teh air intake sensor also mounted in the manifold itself, also being heated up by the engine tempature creep, cooling of the upper manifold will provide a more stable and accurate tempature reading which can result in better fuel economy, throttle response etc depending upon atmospheric conditions Ie hot V cold weather.
Racing Performance Works - Mitsubishi Performance Specialists
User avatar
smorison
The Godfather
Posts: 2461
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: In the TRUCK!!!
Contact:

Post by smorison »

agreed re hub v's wheel dyno's...
but as stated i am able to do a lot more testing including temperature graphing....
i also have the ability to change mixture levels if there is capacity to due to lower intake temperatures.

anyway i've had a bit of a hunt around the net and i can see a definate value for turbo cars but NA you really have to be searching for that last little bit of power before you crack it open and go crazy on the insides....
User avatar
payaya
Oldtimer
Posts: 3670
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:00 pm

Post by payaya »

How much would air heat up anyway? With the speed air enters the engine I doubt it would do anything!

I can see this probably giving you a very tiny gain in the racing scene (F1), but in an FTO?
Post Reply