Brake bleeding questions

[Rob Furniss]

Ok dumb question here but may be good for giggles.
I've been attempting to bleed the brakes (ABS) after having a pipe off and I started at rear left, front right, rear right front left but struggling to get much out of the front right so what's the proper procedure?
I can get fluid out of all but this damn front right so what am I doing wrong?
I've had a tiny bit of fluid in the clear bleed pipe (have a cheap one-man bleed kit) followed by air then a tiny bit more fluid then nothing, started the whole thing again from the back left and back to front right and again same issue.
I don't think it's getting much pressure in the pedal.

I had my nine year old in the car pumping the pedal then holding it, I undid the bleed nipple then closed it after fluid stopped and when the pedal dropped (she shouted) and we repeated this for ages and this procedure seems to work on three but not the front right.
Also tried it with the engine running and without (mentions having the engine running in the workshop manual) a few times.

Does it sound like I need to bleed the master cylinder (and if so how) or i've got air leaking in somewhere? (there is a noise like a duck quaking coming from the engine bay when I pump the pedal).
I can take my time as I don't need to use the car and want to get it right but it's quite annoying as it sounds like a simple job and it's being a pita.

[Daniel2019]

Rear left, rear right, front left, front right.

Sometimes bleed nipples get a bit clogged. Just open the blocked one up, stomp your foot on the brake a few times (not all the way to the floor) and it should clear out all the crap.

[PHIL069]

Sorry Daniel but he is bleeding in the correct order for our brake setup.
Agree on possible blocked nipple, remove the nipple completely and see if you can get fluid coming through.
If no fluid then undo the brake line on the back of the calliper and try.
Work your way back to the master until you find the issue.
It could be the abs distribution block.

[Daniel2019]

Huh? It's furthest away to closest from master cylinder.. which is RR, RL, FL, FR?

[Vectose]

Huh? It's furthest away to closest from master cylinder.. which is RR, RL, FL, FR?

Not according to the workshop manual.

[Daniel2019]

Huh? It's furthest away to closest from master cylinder.. which is RR, RL, FL, FR?

Not according to the workshop manual.

You mean the one that has two different procedures for tightening head bolts?

[Vectose]

Workshop manual has 1 procedure, engine manual has another.

[PHIL069]

Nah, our brakes are designed for the rear chamber of the master cylinder to operate one rear corner and opposite front corner. The front chamber operates the other rear and other front.
It has a name but I can't think of it right now.
So you are bleeding the rear master cylinder chamber first, then the front chamber.

The ones you are taking about run rear brakes from rear master chamber, and front brakes from front chamber.

If a master cylinder chamber or brake circuit fails on FTO's you still have one front and one rear brake on opposite corners for safer braking.

[Daniel2019]

Nah, our brakes are designed for the rear chamber of the master cylinder to operate one rear corner and opposite front corner. The front chamber operates the other rear and other front.
It has a name but I can't think of it right now.
So you are bleeding the rear master cylinder chamber first, then the front chamber.

The ones you are taking about run rear brakes from rear master chamber, and front brakes from front chamber.

If a master cylinder chamber or brake circuit fails on FTO's you still have one front and one rear brake on opposite corners for safer braking.

The name you're looking for is a tandem system. As far as I know, ABS systems should be bled from furthest to closest.

[PHIL069]

Nah, it's called a diagonal split brake system.
ABS or not, all FTO's use the same system.

Google it

[Daniel2019]

Oh, you mean the lines being diagonal, I thought you meant the master being split.

Either way that doesn't explain why one caliper isn't bleeding. I have bled my brakes numerous times and the only issue I've ever had was from a pair of rooted calipers, not the way of bleeding, so it shouldn't really matter.

Just open the bleed nipple that isn't bleeding, put your brake bleeder line over it and into a bucket or your sucker reservoir and pump the pedal. Had the same issue with the Daihatsu a while ago, that fixed it.

[PHIL069]

Well the master is split, it has a dual piston.
So if one seal fails the other still works.
Rear piston section has a different output to the front piston section.
The outputs are then either front/rear or diagonal.
The FTO being diagonal.

[PHIL069]

Yes it could have a blocked nipple, but it could also have a blocked line.

[Daniel2019]

Well the master is split, it has a dual piston.
So if one seal fails the other still works.
Rear piston section has a different output to the front piston section.
The outputs are then either front/rear or diagonal.
The FTO being diagonal.

Yep. I misread that, tandem systems refer in general to the master being divided, that's what I thought you were trying to think of the name for.

Did you accidentally let the brake fluid get too low?

[kiz]

You guys having a lovers tiff over brakes

[Daniel2019]

Not at all, im always interested in a conversation that I can potentially learn from.

[Rob Furniss]

So the master is defo a split system then?
What if I had actually removed my reservoir and remote mounted it somewhere and run rubber hose to push in connectors on the master and one of these such hoses had a kink or a hole in it - would that cause the problem?
I remote mounted my reservoir ages ago but haven't checked the hoses lately as they are tucked away and hard to see, if this is the likely culprit I shall do no more until i've either put the res back where it belongs (for now) or moved it somewhere else where I can keep an eye on the hoses.
I have a longer term plan involving no hoses but an adapter to offset a billet reservoir, all screw in and clamp on and no potential for this sort of thing to happen.

[Daniel2019]

Yep. And that may be related to your problem, yes.

[Rob Furniss]

It definitely was, i've moved the brake res to a better place and put new hoses on now, one of the old ones was kinked so i've used more angled connectors so the hoses aren't bent.
Tried bleeding and saw results straight away.

I should have executed my plan better when I moved the res two years ago to make room for the supercharger.
This is a temporary solution now until my new alloy adapter is ready, there won't be any pipes to kink then.
Thanks for the advice guys, been an interesting read and very useful.

[Daniel2019]

Thanks for the advice guys, been an interesting read and very useful.

There's a first for everything

Good to hear that it's sorted!