Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

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spetz
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Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by spetz » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:13 am

Hi everyone,
I am facing a no crank issue with my car.
I originally suspected it was a starter motor issue and performed the following tests:
1. Checked the voltage of the battery (12.6v)

2. Checked the direct battery positive feed to the starter has voltage; it does however I did not record the voltage so cannot comment currently (will perform this test tomorrow)

3. Checked that the starter solenoid (S terminal) is receiving voltage once ignition is turned; 10.3v was registered which is within “normal” even though a 2.3v volt drop seems excessive (more on this later as something odd happened with this test)

4. Checked for voltage from the solenoid directly to the actual starter motor while turning the ignition on; 0v registered. At this stage I thought “Ok, problem is with the starter solenoid”

Odd behavior in test 3:
The voltage would go up to 10.3v when I tried to start the motor at the starter solenoid. Then when I stopped trying to crank the motor and just left they key at “on” in the ignition the voltage was at 9.5v (I was expecting unless I am trying to crank this should be 0). Finally when I turn the key to the off position the voltage takes about 3-5 seconds to slowly drop
At this stage I removed the starter motor thinking it needs replacing and while out I bench tested it directly with the car battery. The pinion spring up and the starter motor started spinning very quickly, so it seems the starter motor and solenoid are fine.

What could my problem be?
Starter motor relay?

Tomorrow I will reinstalled the starter motor and try to connect the solenoid S (ignition/crank) terminal directly to the battery live feed that goes to the starter solenoid.

Any other tests I should perform?
Any ideas of what this could be?

If it is the starter motor relay, is this a common part on other Mitsubishis that are more easily found at wreckers?

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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Daniel2019 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:24 am

Could still be the starter.. sometimes they crank on a bench test but fail with added load from trying to spin motor.
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Bennoz » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:28 am

I reckon the battery has dropped a cell (those voltages are too low) and you've got a bad earth. Re-seat the car earth & chassis earth points.
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Daniel2019 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:35 am

Quick question is this the same car that doesn't have an ECU installed lol
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by spetz » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:44 am

The battery is from my 6G74 powered Verada and it has no issues cranking/running so I doubt it is a battery issue. The 13.8v test is usually when the car is running.

Yes it is the same car with no ECU but I ended up connecting the wires and clipping in the ECU.

What about the voltage not dropping at the solenoid S terminal?
This seems really odd as I would expect as soon as I let go of the ignition it should stop giving out a voltage, otherwise the starter would still be triggered to spin?

Is the starter motor relay number 12?
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by spetz » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:31 pm

Connecting the starter solenoid S terminal directly to the positive feed got it going.
So there is some kind of fault somewhere between the ignition barrel and the starter motor solenoid.

I am not sure what can be in the middle of these 2 points?

The car has an alarm, how does the ignition kill switch work on alarms if anyone knows?

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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Technikhaus » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:07 pm

Usually the ignition kill is the ignition wire sliced in two and fed into the ecu, so try remove that split and join the wires back up?
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by spetz » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:18 pm

I ended up removing the aftermarket alarm system on it and it now starts without issues.

So faulty alarm/immobilizer was the problem basically

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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by bjk » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:48 am

spetz wrote:I ended up removing the aftermarket alarm system on it and it now starts without issues.

So faulty alarm/immobilizer was the problem basically
That doesn't surprise me. I'm loathe to get one for my car though I technically need it for insurance lol.
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Bennoz » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:38 am

bjk wrote:
spetz wrote:I ended up removing the aftermarket alarm system on it and it now starts without issues.

So faulty alarm/immobilizer was the problem basically
That doesn't surprise me. I'm loathe to get one for my car though I technically need it for insurance lol.
I pulled one out of my red car a while back. Fortunately the crayon-eating redneck that installed it, left all the wire labels on, so I just cut it out & reconnected a new one :lol:
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Vectose » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:10 am

Bennoz wrote:
bjk wrote:
spetz wrote:I ended up removing the aftermarket alarm system on it and it now starts without issues.

So faulty alarm/immobilizer was the problem basically
That doesn't surprise me. I'm loathe to get one for my car though I technically need it for insurance lol.
I pulled one out of my red car a while back. Fortunately the crayon-eating redneck that installed it, left all the wire labels on, so I just cut it out & reconnected a new one :lol:
Did you leave the labels as well for future replacement?
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Bennoz » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:01 am

Vectose wrote:
Bennoz wrote:
bjk wrote:
spetz wrote:I ended up removing the aftermarket alarm system on it and it now starts without issues.

So faulty alarm/immobilizer was the problem basically
That doesn't surprise me. I'm loathe to get one for my car though I technically need it for insurance lol.
I pulled one out of my red car a while back. Fortunately the crayon-eating redneck that installed it, left all the wire labels on, so I just cut it out & reconnected a new one :lol:
Did you leave the labels as well for future replacement?
Nope, quickest way to have it bypassed, leaving them on.
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Vectose » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:02 am

Easier to bypass when it fails :cheeky:
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Bennoz » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:41 am

Vectose wrote:Easier to bypass when it fails :cheeky:
Bah, just whack 12v into each line & you'll end up knowing what's what :lol:
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by bjk » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:58 am

:lol: maybe I'll just have a kill switch like Tim suggested and leave it at that. Nobody wants to steal an FTO anyway lol
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Bennoz » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:36 pm

bjk wrote::lol: maybe I'll just have a kill switch like Tim suggested and leave it at that. Nobody wants to steal an FTO anyway lol
I have one of them as well, does the fuel circuit ;)
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by bjk » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:36 pm

Bennoz wrote:
bjk wrote::lol: maybe I'll just have a kill switch like Tim suggested and leave it at that. Nobody wants to steal an FTO anyway lol
I have one of them as well, does the fuel circuit ;)
But do you need it? You could plaster a pic of your beanie and cigar photo on your shed and it would keep away the thieves. :lol:
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Vectose » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:06 pm

NFC ignition. My setup is so complicated they couldn't bypass it. :lol:
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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by yotka » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:59 pm

Vectose wrote:NFC ignition. My setup is so complicated they couldn't bypass it. :lol:
No F****** Clue ignition

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Re: Complicated(?) No Crank Scenario

Post by Daniel2019 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:44 pm

Have had that issue before too.

Alarm brand was "HUGE-SUN-1" :lol: :lol:
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