Redline's Turbo FTO Info, your guide to turbo a FTO.

So you want a hairdryer on your FTO? Or do you already have a hairdryer in it? This is the section for it. All other big power projects & forced induction goes here too.

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RedlineGX
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Redline's Turbo FTO Info, your guide to turbo a FTO.

Post by RedlineGX »

Some info for would be turbochargers. I'm going to rest my bleeding fingers. :lol:

Intercooler. About 22" x 7" x 2.5" core or around that general size. A bar and plate air to air works best. Bigger is not always better.

Wastegate. This can be internal on the turbo or external off of it. For low boost there isn't much difference except the internal on the turbo would be easier since there would be less piping involved. (Already plumbed back into downpipe) Just make sure the spring is not higher than the PSI you want to run.

Blow Off Valve. Again not necessary for 6psi or below but would still be advantageous and also adds that swoosh noise everyone loves to hear. This allows the build up of pressure that is caused when you either come off of the gas or change gears and the butterfly valve in the throttle is shut from pushing the air back over the turbo in the opposite direction. This causes the turbo to slow down and causes lag when you go back on the gas. In high boost situations the reverse air can actually bend the blades of the turbo in the opposite direction reducing performance. So the BOV will sit between the TB and Turbo so reverse gas is let out before it gets back to the turbo. For GR/GX owners remember your MAF sensor has to sit before the compressor side of the turbo or in other words on the suck in side and not the blow out side since it cant handle the boost pressure.

Turbo. Sizing depends on how you want your power to come on but a T28 or so should be a good size to build boost early enough. Ball bearing turbos spool faster and last longer but are generally more expensive. Some turbos are watercooled and oil cooled or oil cooled only. You will need Stainless Steel braided lines to run the oil from the engine to the turbo since it would be under pressure as well as brass fittings for the oil feed from the block and into the turbo. For the oil feed I bought a brass T connector and screwed it into the standard oil pressure sensor on the block. You can see this sensor by removing the drivers side wheel and arch liner. It's fairly small and screws into the block with just one or two wires attached to it. I removed this, screwed in the T where it came from. Replaced the sensor into one side of the T and screwed the turbo oil feed line into the other. Make sure everything is in securely and you might want to use some thread lock here since if this comes out your oil will go spirting out under pressure onto your wheel both emptying your engine of oil and lubricating your tyres. Never a good thing! You will also need a larger rubber pipe for the return oil line from the turbo to the sump. I went with heavy duty ruber hose with a metal mesh interior to stop it form being accidentally squeezed closed by anything. This is gravity fed not under any real pressure so however you setup your turbo it has to be higher than the sump so the oil will return fast enough. If the oil gets trapped in the turbo and doesnt return fast enough this will blow out the seals in the turbo or worse starve your engine of oil!! (FYI the sump is the black square container with the nut you undo to let your oil out. This is where the oil sits when the engine is off. You will have to drill a hole to tap into your sump at the top of it. For this the sump MUST be removed. If you drill a hole in it with it on the bits of metal will get into your pan and mix in with the oil....not a good thing. Remove it, drill hole, weld return pipe attachment on, clean out and reseal with gasket maker. The hole must be fairly high up the sump so that it is above oil level. Try and get the return hose as straight as possible from turbo to sump. No crimps or parts where the oil would have to go uphill since it won't make it.

Injectors.There is some debate as to how necessay these are. You can definitely run up to 4/5 psi without upgrading but to me 6psi is pushing it and doesnt give you any safety room. Standard size is 166cc each. RPW sell some used 210cc at a good price and those would be adequate for 6 or 7psi. I also have an adjustable boost sensitive Fuel pressure regulator and upgraded EVO VIII fuel pump. Wether these are necessary I'm not sure since i had them on from before the turbo but i feel more comfortable with them on. I would highly reccommend that you at least get an adjustable FPR.

Slimline Radiator Fan? Depending on your setup you might not need this but i did to run my intercooler piping up between the radiator and engine up to the throttle body since the standard fan on the passenger side was too wide to allow the pipe to go through. Its a fairly straight forward replacement. The harness is two wires so no big electric work there might just have to be inventive with the mounting of it since its doubtful it will mount the same places as stock fan.


Intercooler Piping. I went with 2.25" aluminum and silicone bends. 2.25" is large enough while still being small enough to work with in the tight area. You will need to plan out your piping route and get a variety of bends. Stainless steel bends are also available but are usually heavier and retain heat more. The plus size though is that more people will be able to weld them and bend exact angles for your need. I actually have a mix of aluminum and SS in my setup. Remember where possible always use mandrel bends as opposed to press bends since the mandrel will retain the inside diameter while the press bends will actually stretch and close in at the bends restricting air a bit. The ideal setup is to cut very close straight pieces at small angles and weld them altogether since even mandrel bends are not perfect but that would be a lot more work and is usually done for show more than go especially if you have a neet welder. Very popular in japan. Silicone is a lot more expensive than metal piping but has flex in it which is necessary for your setup since your engine will move a bit. I used silicone bends on my intercooler in and out and to my TB and also the stepup from 2.25" to 3" to pipe to the TB as well as a couple more angles. Hump adapters which are straight pieces with a bulge in the middle are good connecters because they have a lot of give and allow you to move your piping slightly to get that perfect angle. DO NOT USE NORMAL RUBBER HOSE, like the one that comes with the standard NA setup on the FTO. That will expand under boost and blow off.

Up Pipe. Ahhh....one of the hardest parts of turboing the FTO. If not for these I'm sure there would be a lot more turbo ftos out there. The uppipe is the pipe that feeds the exhaust gas from the engine to the turbine side of the turbo (dark part at the back) This isn't going to the very back of the turbo but rather the side of the back. This spins the turbine blade which is attached by a shaft to the compressor blade at the compressor side of the turbo (silver front side that blows air). So the more exhaust gas passing over the turbine, the faster it spins and the faster the compressor side spins and the faster boost is made. If not for the wastegate which opens at the PSI dictated by the spring inside, the turbo would keep spinning faster and faster and make so much boost your engine would explode. So the less restrictive the uppipe is the faster the air will flow and faster you will make boost.

The FTO being a v6 presents another challenge. The exhaust gases come out from two sides of the engine and the turbo only has one turbine inlet. So at some point between the engine and the turbo the exhaust gases must connect. Right now this happens even on the standard exhaust setup but in a very restrictive way and of course angles straight out to the back of the car instead of up to the turbo so the standard downpipe on the NA FTO can't be used as the uppipe for the turbo hence the need for something custom. Assuming you have no intention to go back to NA best thing to do is chop up that SOB and get the flanges that connect to the extractors. These flanges can be used back on your custom uppipe and will save time having to build new ones. After that the general idea is to build two pipes coming from each extractor, merging down and connecting into one V (much like many of the aftermarket downpipes available for the FTO in NA form) but then one 2.5" pipe straight back up to the turbo. Sounds easy but the hard part is space. Bends have to be just right to avoid all the crap thats going on there. If you have ABS it makes it that much harder since a lot of that stuff goes on in the area you would want to use. Remember ground clearance for the piping also.


Down Pipe. This is the pipe that comes from the very back of the turbo. After exhaust gases leave the engine, get to the turbo and spin the blades, they exit the back and have to leave the car. Generally a turbo spins faster with no restriction as in with no downpipe or blowing straight out the back but that would just be insanely loud, leave soot in your engine bay not to mention very hot and poisonous gases (hasn't passed the CAT yet). So downpipe is necessary. Again 2.5" is an ok size with the space you have to work with but dont go smaller than that. Keep sharp bends to a minimal. This pipe will probably cross paths very close to the up pipe so careful planning is important so they dont hit. This pipe will continue on to the muffler. A setup as straight as possible contuinuing at least 2.5" to the muffler is best. Again no sharp bends, and as few resonators etc as possible. Exhaust upgrades are necessary to get the most from your turbo. Standard muffler setup is restrictive even in NA form.

For both the up pipe and down pipe you will need the flanges that go with the turbo you have so try to obtain them the same time as the turbo, if not there are companies that sell flanges separately or if you're like me you can trace them from the turbo and have a machine shop make them for you which may be even cheaper.

Heat wrap. The exhaust side of the turbo gets very hot so you will need to heat wrap the up pipe and down pipe and if you can get a heat shield blanket for the turbo itself. If not heat will transfer from the turbine side to the compressor side.

Turbo clamps. These are screw on clamps which replace the worm clamps you would have on your standard NA setup. These are much more sturdy and can be tightened a lot more to withstand the extra boost.

Boost gauge. Necessary to make sure you are running your correct boost pressure and wastegate is functioning properly. An oil pressure gauge and air/fuel gauge are also recommended although you can't rely on a standard air fuel gauge to be very accurate just give you an idea. For true accuracy you would need a wideband gauge with sensor like the AEM UEGO.

Boost Controller. Only necessary if your wastegate spring is lower than the PSI you want to run or is opening too early. This allows you to manually increase the boost from the turbo by fooling the wastegate into thinking the PSI is lower than it is. Small and easy to install since it only uses vaccuum lines.

Oil Cooler. Again not necessary on low boost unless you are really racing the car or driving long on a hot day. Is reccommended if you can afford it.

Transmission Oil Cooler. Strongly reccommended for turbo Tiptronic FTOs since under the extra load the box can get hotter a lot more quickly, esp the 4spd.

Engine Management. Critical for a proper turbo setup is good tuning. This can't be emphasised enough. All the best parts in the world dont mean crap without a good tune. Timing and air fuel ratios must be altered with a turbo setup. I have a Greddy Emanage in mine and that works great but there are a lot of other computers out there that can get the job done.

Overall a successful turbo setup is one that has very little restriction and keeps the heat down. Thermal gaskets, water injection, air vents , a large enough and well placed intercooler all contribute to a cooler setup.

I'm sure i missed out a lot but I'll have to get back to it when my brain is fresh but fire away with the questions and I will answer what I can. Hope this helps clear up some stuff.
Last edited by RedlineGX on Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FTO338
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Post by FTO338 »

Pictures of his project can be found at the following link :D

http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... pic&t=6734

More info on other projects can also be found at "Project Corner" section.
DISCLAIMER: The above text is the personal opinion of the author and does not represent the indisputable truth. The author is not responsible for any deaths, injuries or mental illness caused by the above statments.
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Post by Bennoz »

Sensational. Free hat for Redline! :D
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Post by RedlineGX »

awww shucks :roll:
Anyone need more specifics you can email me at info@redlinebarbados.com
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Post by khunjeng »

can you give everyone an idea of the rough cost overall...
RedlineGX
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Post by RedlineGX »

Well it would vary. For me I was fortunate because I had collected some of the stuff from before and got some good deals with some used but good condition parts but here is avg price in US in parts from the US so you would have to compare local pricing or add shipping/duties.

Turbo - $475
Intercooler - $175
Piping & Silicone - $350
BOV - $125
Computer - $300
SS Hoses and Brass Fittings - $75
Heat Wrap and Clamps - $100
Boost Gauge - $60
Injectors - Check RPW website.
Fuel Pressure Regulator - $125

Parts would cost about $2000 US tops assuming you buy everything new. At worse you can do the setup on 4psi with standard injectors and without a BOV. You could also probably pick up a used turbo a good bit cheaper but make sure you can hand test the shafts or it has a warranty.

For Up Pipe / Down Pipe its mostly labour so that will also vary. I did 90% of the work myself and just paid for the welds and rental of ramp. Took me about 12 hours to get both perfect but that was working alone and having the added stress of going around the ABS lines. Believe it or not i think plumbing the pipes is easier with a TIP since you have more room in the back behind the engine. In all I spent about 350US on getting my pipes made although like i said you would have to be willing to get your hands dirty or have a good mate with a garage. If several of you get together and charge the same time would be a lot cheaper because you would probably be able to copy the piping off the car so you would be only paying for one set of major work.

Got a friend to wire in my emanage. Not a lot of work if you are fortunate enough to have an ECU pinout which isnt that hard to get for a pre facelift. Being a GX Tip i didnt have one so had to trace wires etc but even so was only a half day job at most. Tuning is next big expense. Unfortunately I dont have a dyno at my disposal so its basically on road tuning. I spent about 300US to tune mine but i figure a dyno would be more.

So even if you figure 2000 in parts, 1300 in labour and 700 in tuning you are now at $4000 US or about $5500 AU?

Again i dont live in Australia so i dont know what you pay for stuff but can't be worse than here and I spent about 2600US charging my car, a lot cheaper than most people would think.

My advice would be go for a 4psi setup. Iron out the bugs, get used to it, break in the turbo and turn up the boost a little later.
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Nacho
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Post by Nacho »

I know that all your figures have different PSI but can you also give a rough estimate of the power gains from turboing the 6A12/6A12 MIVEC?

I know personally but this is for the noobs...... :wink:
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I8A4RE
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Post by I8A4RE »

yeah i wanna know :lol:
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Post by jonowong »

where'd you buy the slimline radiator fan from?
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jonowong
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Post by jonowong »

too easy mate...

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/1461419

now the question is... 2x 10" or 2x 12" or just 1x12"?
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Post by AMACHA »

if anyone is interested hers some really good information on turbos its great unformation and turns people knowing zilch about aturbo to someone like a mechanic lol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger
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Post by I8A4RE »

Redline where did you get your fuel pump from
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Re: Redline's Turbo FTO Info, your guide to turbo a FTO.

Post by Rob Furniss »

That's a great guide.
Quick question with hopefully a quick answer - do the fuel lines and fuel filter always need moving too / recommended to move them as they look like they will be in the way of the up and down pipes?
My Son Rowan has just started his Turbo project.
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Re: Redline's Turbo FTO Info, your guide to turbo a FTO.

Post by bjk »

Rob Furniss wrote:That's a great guide.
Quick question with hopefully a quick answer - do the fuel lines and fuel filter always need moving too / recommended to move them as they look like they will be in the way of the up and down pipes?
My Son Rowan has just started his Turbo project.
I believe most people do move them to avoid being near all the turbo piping.

Sorry Rob but this thread is almost a decade old too. :lol:
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Re: Redline's Turbo FTO Info, your guide to turbo a FTO.

Post by Rob Furniss »

bjk wrote:
Rob Furniss wrote:That's a great guide.
Quick question with hopefully a quick answer - do the fuel lines and fuel filter always need moving too / recommended to move them as they look like they will be in the way of the up and down pipes?
My Son Rowan has just started his Turbo project.
I believe most people do move them to avoid being near all the turbo piping.

Sorry Rob but this thread is almost a decade old too. :lol:
That's ok, i'm just catching up! (you know how slow my supercharger project is going)
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Re: Redline's Turbo FTO Info, your guide to turbo a FTO.

Post by bjk »

Rob Furniss wrote:That's ok, i'm just catching up! (you know how slow my supercharger project is going)
At least the boost will be instantaneous when the supercharger is on. ;)
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