What to look for when buying an FTO

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What to look for when buying an FTO

Post by young_gun »

Gday guys,

I'm a 17 year old rev head and will be getting my licence and i want an fto as my first car. Im looking to spend between 10-14k. I was wondering if anyone could offer me advice on what model is best? should i buy one with mods already done? and what should i look out for, as far as both good and bad aspects? Cheers
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Post by khunjeng »

by no means a definative list...but heres a start.

http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... pic&t=8003
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Post by SchumieFan »

can someone do up a thread with "what to look for in an fto" and sticky it?
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Post by khunjeng »

SchumieFan wrote:can someone do up a thread with "what to look for in an fto" and sticky it?
go for it! let us know when your done :P
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Post by SchumieFan »

oh f**k you! hahahaa

no i wasnt volunteering, just use your list, list some common faults (stepper motor etc) and sticky it.... but u see i cant sticky cause im not 1 of those admin knobs.... :D
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Post by khunjeng »

Edited with some FTO bits on the top!

here u go...not mine but we can use as a start!!!...we need to add lots of FTO specifc items...

Nice to haves...

Facelift front bar
5 speed tip (if u want auto like my wife!)
New suspension (shockers and springs) and work done on the bushes
Aftermarket wheels and DECENT tyres! Also remeber u will get a better ride with 50 profile tyres than 40/45s - nice ride.
CAT back exhuast
Extractors (RPW or similar) with flex pipe
CAI setup - UAS or similar nice looking pipe and boxed pod.
Piggyback ECU (Emanage or SAFC) or a Unichip if your lucky!
Aftermarket dials (white dials and rings)
Nice ICE!
Oil pressure guage - not the volt meter like me!
Body kit..VS/DC/BOZZ/Facelift etc
Radiator shield
Window Tint

Must haves

Decent condition centre console...check for cracks!
Replaced alternator (or u will be doig this soon!)
Timing belt change (usually over 100,000 kms)
Decent tyres as above
Listen for the tappet noise - not a big issue but if no noise good sign its been serviced well
For auto..make sure the tip works well and changes properly or as u would expect. ask for servie history and the oil they use.
Rev it to 8.5k and see how it feels and sounds should be awsome.
Platnium or better plugs
Oil brand and usage (and check the oil!) make sure its been 10W-30
% left on the break pads and type
Listen for the window rattle and get $50 of the price
Go over some sharp driveways or inclines and listen for the suspension and noises. If a lot ask what it is and have it checked out.
Look inside the engine bay and look how clean it is.
Check the central locking and the alarm and the passenger side door when its supposed ot be locked!
Check the headlights for signs of the laminate comming off! u will know it when u see it.
Look at the condition of the drivers seat and around that area and see if the condition matches the Kms on the clock
Check the air-con works! and if a GPX check the client control screen that it all works. Also check the dial lights in a dark spot if possible and see how bright it is
Ask how many owners and when it was imported and get the papaerwork.
Ask who has been servicing it, check with us and see if we known them and if they know anything about the FTO as a guide.
Generally check the bodywork for dents etc.
Compression test is a must. If it fails this leak down test it also. If the place doesn't do it go to another place.
Check the fog lights work


General points to follow when looking at a car:

First points:
Check the car when it's clean. Ask the seller to wash the car before you go and see it. Dirt tells a lot of lies.
Check the car during the day. NEVER look at a car at night. If possible, look at it on a sunny day so you can use the sun to check the paintwork.
Examine the car up-close AND from a distance (front and back, and both sides).
Open and close all doors, boot, bonnet, and any panels that can open and shut.
What questions should I ask the buyer/myself? (Remember ask the seller the questions, but answer them yourself with your own eyes and brain):
Does the seller have a genuine reason for selling?
Does it have a full service record of it's life in Japan? (If it does, check that it's real and not forged. This is very rare as Japanese owners rarely throw the Service or Owners Manuals in the car when it goes to auction)
If it's a local car, does it have a full service record of it's time in Australia?
Has the car been in any previous accidents? Ask, but don't take the seller's word for it. Look for yourself!

- Check the nuts along the front quarter panels and the radiator support in the engine bay... Are there signs of those nuts being removed? If so, ask yourself why.
- Check for other signs of engine removal. Has the engine been removed? Why?
- Check the paintwork!!! Check that all the paint on the panels match colour tone and depth. Stand back from the car at a slight angle and run your eyes along the panels with the sunlight and check for any blending marks. Look for ripples, waves, poorly fitted panels and mismatched colors.
What condition are the tyres in? Are the rear tyres worn a lot more than the fronts? If they are, I'm pretty sure you can figure out what the previous owner's driving style is like. Remember to factor in the price of replacement tyres into the buy cost. Don't skimp on tyres or continue to use bald ones. They're the only things sticking your ass onto the road and saving your life. Check for even wear marks, uneven wear indicates bad wheel alignment. Another thing you'll have to fix. More money.
Check the condition of the interior. Does the wear and tear on the steering wheel and driver's seat match the kms shown on the odometer?
Which brings you to checking the kms. Is this a 1994 Skyline with 30,000kms? It's 2004 now, do you really think the previous owner drove 3000kms a year? Contrary to popular belief, Japanese owners drive their car a LOT, just as much as we do. Expect to find in the range of 9000-13000kms per year on the odometer reading. Don't convince yourself that this is a "rare super buy with low km granny owner driven on weekends car"... Bullshit. It's a Skyline you idiot. Check that the numbers on the odometer are aligned properly.
Carefully push down on the front bumper and rear bumper and see how the shocks are. Ideally, shocks and springs should be rebuilt/replaced every 60,000kms, but this never happens.
Check for rust. Surface rust is okay and needs to be cleaned and treated with fish oil to stop further growth. Look for rust around the bottom of the doors and fenders, and around the boot area... Basically where water has a chance to sit and gather.
Check that the compliance plate date and make sure everything is okay.
Check to see if the car has any defectable modifications. Are you happy with those? Rembember if you get defected for them, that will cost you many hundreds of dollars.


Detailed Checklist:

Body:
Check for bubbles along molding or chrome (indicates rust underneath).
Stand back approximately 10 to 15 feet from the car and see if the car is level.

Interior:
Compare mileage on service stickers (door jamb/under hood) to the odometer reading.
Check the condition of the seats, belts and carpeting.
Check the windows to see if they open and close easily.
Check the brake, accelerator and clutch -- should work smoothly, no strange noises.
Check all exterior lights and flashers on the car.
Make certain that the air conditioning blows very cold air.
Check the glove box for the service manual and owner's manual. (Probably won't be there )

Engine:
Check for leaks in the Power Steering, Clutch Reservoir, Brake Fluid Reservoir, ABS Unit.
Get the engine compression tested and if it fails that, do a leak-down test.
Check the engine belts and hoses for cracks and wear.
Radiator coolant should be a clean, usually greenish (but sometimes blue or yellow) color.
Pull out the oil dipstick. Oil should not be gummy or grayish or smell burnt.
Check automatic transmission fluid, should be clear and reddish.
Check the spark plugs to check for overfuelling, detonation, sulphur deposits from octane booster.
Put the car on the dyno if you want to. I usually do as a last step just for interests sake. If it passed the compression test the engine should be okay.

Undercarriage:
GET THE CAR UP ON A HOIST!!!! How can you thoroughly check for accident damage if you don't look underneath the car where the most obvious signs of repair lie?
Look for weld marks, or thick black underbody tar. Welding marks are usually hidden by panel beaters with lots of underbody tar.
Check under the engine for leaking oil. Alternatively, if it has been wiped clean (the bottom of the engine, ie. the sump and crossmember), ASK YOURSELF WHY!! Who wipes the bottom of their engine? Be VERY wary of clean underbodies.
Check for leaking transmission fluid, power steering fluid, etc...
Check each and every shock absorber for leaks. Shock aborbers are expensive to rebuild.
Look for overspray on the bottom of the car, like the tow hook or suspension parts. This is a tell-tale sign of a respray.

Boot:
Look inside the trunk for an inflated spare tire. Has it been used?
There should be a jack and a lug wrench and wheel chock. Most came with a leather pouched tool kit with screwdriver, and allen keys too.
Check around the water galleries for rust.
Pull out the spare wheel and check the boot floor for rust and accident damage/repair.

smash repairs specific:
. Check headlight/tail-light alignment. They should have perfect gap between them and the fenders and bumpers. Uneven alignment means that they've been taken out and put back in askew. Ask yourself why?

2. Run your eyes along the bodywork and look for paint runs. That is, the paint was sprayed on too thick and dried in "drip marks"... These are commonly found in crevices or join areas. e.g. along the bottom of window seals, the bottom corner of the rear quarter window, the bottom of the A-pillar, etc etc.

3. Look for blending marks. Usually found somewhere along the top or bottom of the C-Pillar, you'll see a slight straight line bump where the spray painted has tried to blend in the new paint with the old. Blending marks can be anywhere depending on where the accident occured, but usually found along large panels that can't the sprayed individually and has to be blended (e.g. the roof's connection to the rest of the body and the rear quarter panels)

4. Look for masking marks. This is where the spray painter has masked off an area of the car that he doesn't want to paint. Masking marks are rough lines of paint where the paint has seeped under the masking tape and hasn't dried smoothly. They'll usually be visibly rougher than the rest of the paint, and rough when you run your fingers over them as well. Most common masking marks are found in door jambs, so open up all those doors, boot, bonnet and check very carefully.

5. Check for paint defects. That is, dirt that was on the car whilst it was being resprayed. They'll show up as tiny, tiny sand-particle sized bumps in the paint. They should be visible when you look at the panels at an angle, but you have to be conscious to look for them. You can also feel them when you run your hand over the paint. I have never seen a factory car with these defects as they would be fixed before delivery.

6. Check for delaminating clear coats. If the clear coat was sprayed on too soon after the colour layers, it won't bond properly to the layers underneath. As a result, you'll be able to see the clear coat "lifting" off the undercoats and it will be brittle and crack off when you touch it. This can be found anywhere, but I found it on one car at the bottom of the A-Pillar. common sense would suggest this delamination would start at sharp edges like the edges of panels and bends in panels.

7. Take the car to a trusted panel beater. They have a paint thickness tester which is basically a magnet that measures the distance between the metal bodywork and the magnet... i.e. the thickness of the paint. Most factory paintjobs will have a paint thickness of about 50-60 microns. But what you're REALLY looking for is a large DIFFERENCE in paint thickness.

e.g. If the roof, boot, rear quarter panels and doors have 60 microns, and the bonnet and front fenders have 130 microns, what does that suggest to you? Obviously if the whole car is showing 150 microns it's probably had a full respray. Cars that have been rubbed back to bare metal, repaired and then resprayed by a skilled panel beater are harder to uncover... But that is very very rare as it costs mucho dinero in labour to rub back a car to bare metal and respray.


Any car that I'm looking to buy, I do the following things:

1. Check out the car myself using the checkpoints listed in this thread.
2. Take it to my mechanics and get it up on a hoist to check for underbody damage that I wouldn't have been able to spot in my initial inspection. Get a compression test done on the engine and put it on the dyno.
3. Take it to my panel beater and get him to have a quick look at it. They do this everyday of their lives and they can spot 1000 times more paint defects in one quick walk around the car, than you could in 8 hours of looking at it.
Last edited by khunjeng on Mon May 08, 2006 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SchumieFan »

Step 3: Take it for a spin and see if it will do 120kmph easily n second gear and 170kmph in third.... hold it there for half an hour and if you dont overheat the car.... dont buy it.... its been thrashed
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Well Done

Post by dstocks »

Way to go knunjeng. That must have taken a while to type up. More info here:

http://www.completefto.com.au/FTO_showcontent.asp?hid=255
Complete FTO (http://www.completefto.com.au/completefto.asp)
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    Post by young_gun »

    Cheers guys very very helpful!

    One more thing which model of the FTO's is the fastest and has the most modification potential?? Also would i be better to purchase FTO with some mods already done for say 14k or a quality stock FTO for the same price? Cheers
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    Post by jonowong »

    want to buy my one? :D im from sydney and its a GPX

    the GPX is abit faster than the GR... GPX has more aftermarket parts but the GR from what people have said on the forum is easier to turbo because it doesnt have MIVEC

    but that doesnt really matter because most people dont turbo it and do a complete engine swap... but that doesnt really matter to you either because you cant drive turbo on P :P
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    Post by young_gun »

    i thought you could drive a turbo but it all depends on the power to weight ratio? becuase one of my mates has a 180sx turbo and thats legal??? What sort of price differences are there between turboing a gr and a gpx?? And i was originally leaning towards a GPX. What price are you asking and what mods etc can you tell me about your car??
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    Re: Well Done

    Post by khunjeng »

    dstocks wrote:Way to go knunjeng. That must have taken a while to type up. More info here:

    http://www.completefto.com.au/FTO_showcontent.asp?hid=255
    nar cut and paste! but i use it now to buy cars...has some good info. I think we could update it with FTO specific issue. Let me have a crack at work tomorrow at lunch.
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    Post by jonowong »

    in sydney turbos and v8s are banned altogether... im not quite sure about the pricing of turboing a GR or GPX because the quotes ive gotten are 10,000 - $15,000 but another memeber has found a workshop willing to do it for $8,000


    Pearl White Mitsubishi FTO GPX $14,000
    - 99,910kms as of today :P
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    - Full Veilside Bodykit
    - 17" Chrome wheels with 80% Falken326 215/45 and Nankang NS-2 225/45 tyres
    - 3.5" Carbon fibre exhaust system
    - HKS Super Flow POD Filter
    - Black Widow Alarm System with immobiliser
    - All power options
    - Biege leatherette seats
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    Post by sublime19 »

    Well I'll tell you what I looked for when I bought mine, I was after something with below 80,000 Ks and good condition.
    I got lucky cos the first FTO I went to see looked really nice, black with a DC front lip and sideskirts and VS wing, HKS air filter, exhaust and rims (the rims look a bit sh*t) and it had only done 48,000 Ks.
    A checkup fron State Roads and the car was in immaculate condition so I bought it for $16,000.
    Bit more than I thought but was in perfect condition, low Ks and regularly serviced with paperwork of every minor thing that had been done to the car.

    Keep in mind I'm really picky, (btw jonowong I'm not trying to scare him off from buying your car with the below 80,000 i'm just really really picky 8O )
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    Post by khunjeng »

    sublime19 wrote:Well I'll tell you what I looked for when I bought mine, I was after something with below 80,000 Ks and good condition.
    I got lucky cos the first FTO I went to see looked really nice, black with a DC front lip and sideskirts and VS wing, HKS air filter, exhaust and rims (the rims look a bit sh*t) and it had only done 48,000 Ks.
    A checkup fron State Roads and the car was in immaculate condition so I bought it for $16,000.
    Bit more than I thought but was in perfect condition, low Ks and regularly serviced with paperwork of every minor thing that had been done to the car.

    Keep in mind I'm really picky, (btw jonowong I'm not trying to scare him off from buying your car with the below 80,000 i'm just really really picky 8O )
    another thing to look out for : don't trust the cluster Kms. Its easy to get a new cluster for about 200 bucks on ebay...and plenty of ppl have told stories of windbacks..this is not fto specific by jap import specific.

    as another memebr said on this forum to me one day...1995 = 10.5 years old...

    100,000 / 10. 5 = 9500 per year. sound right to you? not to say its false but don't trust it is only a mind thing..get the engine checked and get a compression test done..get the gearbox and diff sussed and get it up on a hoist...if its been well looked after 100k+ is no big deal.

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    Post by sublime19 »

    khunjeng wrote: another thing to look out for : don't trust the cluster Kms. Its easy to get a new cluster for about 200 bucks on ebay...and plenty of ppl have told stories of windbacks..this is not fto specific by jap import specific.

    as another memebr said on this forum to me one day...1995 = 10.5 years old...

    100,000 / 10. 5 = 9500 per year. sound right to you? not to say its false but don't trust it is only a mind thing..get the engine checked and get a compression test done..get the gearbox and diff sussed and get it up on a hoist...if its been well looked after 100k+ is no big deal.

    KJ
    Yea this was a major thing I was worried about when I saw the car was only 48,000 Ks but the reason I'm pretty sure it's genuine is because it belonged to some old guy that was selling it for his son since he went overseas, they showed me the paperwork, and his son had bought it in 2001 from dealer and it had 21,000 Ks, which was pretty genuine since it was a fresh import, and their house was in a little street in between the business district of sydney (north sydney) and I wasn't surprised when he told me that his son used to catch a bus cos it was only a 5 minute trip and hard to find parking, plus State roads took about 2 hours and a bit to do a full checkup since I drove it to their centre where they probably did hoist it, but this was genuine.
    You're exactly right though, too much shifty business going on nowadays, I guess I got lucky :wink:
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    Post by khunjeng »

    had bought it in 2001 from dealer and it had 21,000 Ks, which was pretty genuine since it was a fresh import
    i'm not saying its true or false...but they change it on import from japan mate...unless u have the jap docs and u sure tey are legit then off u go...talk to anyone...also low kms doesn't mean better. short trips all the time is not good for the engine either.
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    Post by young_gun »

    Once again guys cheers!!! jonowong your fto sounds very promising, what did the leatherette interior cost and could you send me some pictures of your car. Cheers mate

    Also any advice from anyone on turboing a FTO? I know GPX will cost more to turbo but the GP is apparently cheaper?? A rough figure would be appreciated and is it worth it?

    Cheers
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    Post by Supplanter »

    One of those Mod knobs made it a sticky :P
    LED ALL the things.
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    Post by sublime19 »

    khunjeng wrote:
    had bought it in 2001 from dealer and it had 21,000 Ks, which was pretty genuine since it was a fresh import
    i'm not saying its true or false...but they change it on import from japan mate...unless u have the jap docs and u sure tey are legit then off u go...talk to anyone...also low kms doesn't mean better. short trips all the time is not good for the engine either.
    ah ok, the guy didnt who owned it previously didnt take it short trips cos he caught a bus to work since it was a 5 minute bus trip and it was a weeked car but regardless of that, the car hasn't given me much problems so I don't think there's anything wrong with it and i got a good buy :lol:
    anyway i agree with u about being careful, especially with older cars having their Km's lowered :?
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