ATTN Turbo & Supercharged FTO owners
Moderators: IMC, Club Staff
- d_dan
- Grease Monkey
- Posts: 282
- jedwabna poszewka promocja
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:00 pm
- Location: Ireland
ATTN Turbo & Supercharged FTO owners
OK guys after reading the more recent thread about turboingg 6a12's and 6a13 transplants.
This mad information, comments and research that people are comming out with who have no idea about any of the work involved or issues that arrise.
Im thinking of doing this as a more Question is asked and then give an oppinion & educated response to them.
First off If i can get a list of names for people who would be able to comment on these sort of "forced induction" related questions.
So if you can post your reply and what work you have done with regardes forced induction on a 6a12 or engine transplant or education on the matter.
1.D_Dan (6a12Turbo & decompressed 6a12Turbo)
This mad information, comments and research that people are comming out with who have no idea about any of the work involved or issues that arrise.
Im thinking of doing this as a more Question is asked and then give an oppinion & educated response to them.
First off If i can get a list of names for people who would be able to comment on these sort of "forced induction" related questions.
So if you can post your reply and what work you have done with regardes forced induction on a 6a12 or engine transplant or education on the matter.
1.D_Dan (6a12Turbo & decompressed 6a12Turbo)
- FTEvolution
- Oldtimer
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:00 pm
- Contact:
Fact, but it is only an issue in a competition environment. A road driven car should never suffer from oil starvation.d_dan wrote:Question 1
Oil starvation.
Fact or Fiction?
I for one say Fiction and would like to know if anyone has suffered from this.
With regards to engine transplants, what do you want to know? I didn't "do" my conversion, but I had done over a year of research into it before stumbling onto this one
[img]http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z285/ftevolution/ftevolution-1.jpg[/img]
Smooth and sleepy
All of lifes problems can be cured with a 6A13TT
Smooth and sleepy
All of lifes problems can be cured with a 6A13TT
- Bennoz
- National President
- Posts: 23673
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:00 pm
- Location: Sydney
- Contact:
- I8A4RE
- QLD Coordinator
- Posts: 9594
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:00 pm
- Location: BOOSTIN in front of you
- Contact:
^^^^^^ Hold on here.
Bennoz and ftevo, is dan not talking about oil starvation on a 6a12 road car or is he talking about any car track or road or both???????
I think for all intense purpose's we need to keep very clear on what we are talking about.
So are we talking about road or track vehicles?
Are we talking about all makes and models or just the 6a12/6a13?
1. D_Dan (6a12Turbo & decompressed 6a12Turbo)
2. FTEvo (6a13 TT)
3. Bennoz (6a13TT)
4. I8A4RE (6a12-T)
Bennoz and ftevo, is dan not talking about oil starvation on a 6a12 road car or is he talking about any car track or road or both???????
I think for all intense purpose's we need to keep very clear on what we are talking about.
So are we talking about road or track vehicles?
Are we talking about all makes and models or just the 6a12/6a13?
1. D_Dan (6a12Turbo & decompressed 6a12Turbo)
2. FTEvo (6a13 TT)
3. Bennoz (6a13TT)
4. I8A4RE (6a12-T)
CHRISTIANITY: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
- d_dan
- Grease Monkey
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:00 pm
- Location: Ireland
- d_dan
- Grease Monkey
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:00 pm
- Location: Ireland
- FTEvolution
- Oldtimer
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:00 pm
- Contact:
It is more along the lines of sustained G forces through cornering or brutal acceleration on a drag strip. A road car shouldn't suffer from it as the roads just aren't that good to develop those sorts of forcesd_dan wrote:Yould you not think of this as neglecgence then with a track car?Bennoz wrote:FACT.
But as mentioned, usually only happen on cars that spend plenty of time at high rpm. Aka at the track.
Either not knowing or forgetting to change the oil pump on the engine if it was going on the track?
[img]http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z285/ftevolution/ftevolution-1.jpg[/img]
Smooth and sleepy
All of lifes problems can be cured with a 6A13TT
Smooth and sleepy
All of lifes problems can be cured with a 6A13TT
- I8A4RE
- QLD Coordinator
- Posts: 9594
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:00 pm
- Location: BOOSTIN in front of you
- Contact:
All im going to add is
Okheres what i believe on OIL STARVATION
Q. What are you doing to your oil system when adding a turbo?
A. You are diverting a small amount of oil to the turbo and then back down to the sump.
Q. So what could cause oil starvation
A. There is only 3 possible things i can see.
1. Leak in "oil feed line" -----> Engine loses oil ------> Engine blows up
2. Leak in "oil return line" -----> Enigne Loses oil ------> Engine blows up
3. Oil does not return to sump faster enough, after the oil has passed through the turbo it becomes frothy and a few things may happen eg. the oil retun line is not on a great enough angle and the oil has trouble flowing back to some which in turn starves the engine or if there is only the bare minimum of oil to begin with, by adding this extra oil path, the time it takes to get back to the sump has increased and again could possibly starve the engine of oil.
When adding a turbo you are not playing around with oil system apart from diverting a very small amount of oil. If you check oil often and have no leaks, i just dont see how this could happen. On my car i fill the oil level just slightly over the factory full mark.
Thats my 2 cents
Okheres what i believe on OIL STARVATION
Q. What are you doing to your oil system when adding a turbo?
A. You are diverting a small amount of oil to the turbo and then back down to the sump.
Q. So what could cause oil starvation
A. There is only 3 possible things i can see.
1. Leak in "oil feed line" -----> Engine loses oil ------> Engine blows up
2. Leak in "oil return line" -----> Enigne Loses oil ------> Engine blows up
3. Oil does not return to sump faster enough, after the oil has passed through the turbo it becomes frothy and a few things may happen eg. the oil retun line is not on a great enough angle and the oil has trouble flowing back to some which in turn starves the engine or if there is only the bare minimum of oil to begin with, by adding this extra oil path, the time it takes to get back to the sump has increased and again could possibly starve the engine of oil.
When adding a turbo you are not playing around with oil system apart from diverting a very small amount of oil. If you check oil often and have no leaks, i just dont see how this could happen. On my car i fill the oil level just slightly over the factory full mark.
Thats my 2 cents
CHRISTIANITY: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
- Bennoz
- National President
- Posts: 23673
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:00 pm
- Location: Sydney
- Contact:
Oil starvation has absolutely nothing to do with the turbo.
As I've explained countless times, the problem occurs with mivec engines that are pushed hard.
As we all should know by now, when a mivec engine hits 5,500rpm (or whatever the cutover point is set to) 2 oil solenoids open up at the end of each head. Oil is then pumped into the 4 rocker shaft assemblies, effectively 'flooding' the shaft. The oil is then built up inside the rocker shaft to a certain pressure, this pressure inturn forces small spring loaded lugs in the rocker arms out. Those spring loaded lugs lock the low cam lobe rocker arms into the mivec rocker arms - thus the car is now operating on the mivec cam lobes - or in Mivec country as some like to call it.
Every single time a drivers hits mivec, thats what happens. Now the problem lies in the fact that when the mivec process happens, all that oil thats pumped into the heads (rocker assemblies) has to come from somewhere. Where? It comes from the sump. What spins at high rpm, right near the sump? The crank. So, during extended periods of time spent in Mivec, the sump is effectively drained of oil for a long period of time. So a mivec engine used heavily on the track, see's a lot of time where the crank is running with a low volume of oil - when the FTO was new, this really wasn't an issue, but cars that have done 100,000kms + that spend time on the track, will inevitably spend time in the workshop too.
Exhibit a:
http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... ht=bearing
Now we get a lot of speculation about this because it happens fairly infrequently, thats simply because its fairly infrequently that we see people flogging GPX's round a track all day long.
There's also a simple solution to all of this. If you are paranoid about it happening, PUT A BIGGER OIL PUMP IN. Can be a 6A13 pump (which is signifigantly larger than the 6A12 pump and fits into the 6A12 block) or put a high volume, external electric pump in. Jobs done.
As I've explained countless times, the problem occurs with mivec engines that are pushed hard.
As we all should know by now, when a mivec engine hits 5,500rpm (or whatever the cutover point is set to) 2 oil solenoids open up at the end of each head. Oil is then pumped into the 4 rocker shaft assemblies, effectively 'flooding' the shaft. The oil is then built up inside the rocker shaft to a certain pressure, this pressure inturn forces small spring loaded lugs in the rocker arms out. Those spring loaded lugs lock the low cam lobe rocker arms into the mivec rocker arms - thus the car is now operating on the mivec cam lobes - or in Mivec country as some like to call it.
Every single time a drivers hits mivec, thats what happens. Now the problem lies in the fact that when the mivec process happens, all that oil thats pumped into the heads (rocker assemblies) has to come from somewhere. Where? It comes from the sump. What spins at high rpm, right near the sump? The crank. So, during extended periods of time spent in Mivec, the sump is effectively drained of oil for a long period of time. So a mivec engine used heavily on the track, see's a lot of time where the crank is running with a low volume of oil - when the FTO was new, this really wasn't an issue, but cars that have done 100,000kms + that spend time on the track, will inevitably spend time in the workshop too.
Exhibit a:
http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... ht=bearing
Now we get a lot of speculation about this because it happens fairly infrequently, thats simply because its fairly infrequently that we see people flogging GPX's round a track all day long.
There's also a simple solution to all of this. If you are paranoid about it happening, PUT A BIGGER OIL PUMP IN. Can be a 6A13 pump (which is signifigantly larger than the 6A12 pump and fits into the 6A12 block) or put a high volume, external electric pump in. Jobs done.
- I8A4RE
- QLD Coordinator
- Posts: 9594
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:00 pm
- Location: BOOSTIN in front of you
- Contact:
Precisely my pointBennoz wrote:Oil starvation has absolutely nothing to do with the turbo.
CHRISTIANITY: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
- Bennoz
- National President
- Posts: 23673
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:00 pm
- Location: Sydney
- Contact:
- I8A4RE
- QLD Coordinator
- Posts: 9594
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:00 pm
- Location: BOOSTIN in front of you
- Contact:
\Bennoz wrote:You can have a candy caneI8A4RE wrote:Precisely my pointBennoz wrote:Oil starvation has absolutely nothing to do with the turbo.
WoooHOooo.
OIL STARVATION CASE: CLOSED
CHRISTIANITY: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
- d_dan
- Grease Monkey
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:00 pm
- Location: Ireland
so whats the next question,
6a12 compression Vs boost?
What is the max SAFE boost pressure to run and on what compression.
As you know the 6a12 (mivec FTO) runs 10:1 compression ratio as standard.
What is your oppinion of a safe boost pressure to be running?
Have you altered the standard compression? what boost can you run safely?
6a12 compression Vs boost?
What is the max SAFE boost pressure to run and on what compression.
As you know the 6a12 (mivec FTO) runs 10:1 compression ratio as standard.
What is your oppinion of a safe boost pressure to be running?
Have you altered the standard compression? what boost can you run safely?
- d_dan
- Grease Monkey
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:00 pm
- Location: Ireland
- I8A4RE
- QLD Coordinator
- Posts: 9594
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:00 pm
- Location: BOOSTIN in front of you
- Contact:
Well my opinion comes from the research i have done and i am yet to have tried on my car (need bigger fuel pump and fuel reg).
6a12 (non decomp) 8psi - I believe Redline was running that on his mivec and my tuner believes it will not be a problem at all.
6a12 (decomp) I would say 10-11 MAX but i have not researched this as thouroghly as above.
6a12 (non decomp) 8psi - I believe Redline was running that on his mivec and my tuner believes it will not be a problem at all.
6a12 (decomp) I would say 10-11 MAX but i have not researched this as thouroghly as above.
CHRISTIANITY: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
- Bennoz
- National President
- Posts: 23673
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:00 pm
- Location: Sydney
- Contact:
- FTEvolution
- Oldtimer
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:00 pm
- Contact: