Few questions

[Taz]

So first up, this is probably a nub question, but what is preventing me putting gpx front brakes on the back? A part from the deeper dish on the rotors? Has anyone looked into this before? just curious.
Also, engine dampers - has anyone looked into this as well, if done right can I just use regular gas struts? Mount a point on the engine and engine bay?
Just been thinking lately about sh*t like this for maverick, just brainstorming really.

[Bennoz]

Ever looked at the rear brakes? There's little thing in there called 'the handbrake assembly' that is an integrated part of the calipers.

[Shane001]

^^ this, and fitment issues, and balance issues.

I'm not even going to touch the dampers idea...

[Taz]

Just wanted to know if in any way its possible to over come those things in any way, ill take that as a no, or unfeesable.
Judging by shane I'm missing something about the dampers...

[Shane001]

Why do you want to put dampers or struts on your engine for? in place of the engine mounts? why?

[Bennoz]

You're basically building an Evo, just use the good Evo mounts. Thats what i use. Good for 500kws.

[Taz]

sh*t 500kw? Would thought maybe half that.

[wagonist]

If you're building a track car, and don't need the handbrake, then there's no real reason stopping you putting the front brakes on the back.
The hassle would be getting everything to line up again.
The front rotors (the inside machined face) on the rear will sit 4mm further inboard than the rear rotors.
The front calipers also have 4mm longer thread to mount them than the rear ones.
Therefore, the face on the rear caliper mounting bracket where the caliper bolts on would need to be 8mm further inboard (which wouldn't be that hard looking at the way the factory one is done).
I'm not sure how to reproduce that bracket and still include the ABS sensor mount (but for racing, you'd want to remove that).

[Taz]

If you're building a track car, and don't need the handbrake, then there's no real reason stopping you putting the front brakes on the back.
The hassle would be getting everything to line up again.
The front rotors (the inside machined face) on the rear will sit 4mm further inboard than the rear rotors.
The front calipers also have 4mm longer thread to mount them than the rear ones.
Therefore, the face on the rear caliper mounting bracket where the caliper bolts on would need to be 8mm further inboard (which wouldn't be that hard looking at the way the factory one is done).
I'm not sure how to reproduce that bracket and still include the ABS sensor mount (but for racing, you'd want to remove that).

I didnt want to sound like a dick saying "well i dont need the handbrake, so would i remove it?" but yea, this is what i was thinking but had no idea if it was just gonna bolt straight up or how heavy the mods would have to be.
What could i expect to see braking wise if i bolted up the evo 5 brembos to the front, fto fronts to rear and changed the braking to say 65-35 (as it will be awd im assuming i can get away with that?) over a 80-20 setuo with small rear brakes?

god i must sound like a complete obivious dickhead to some right now

[Bennoz]

The size of the brakes does not govern the balance, a bias adjuster does.

You may also want to check the CAMS regulations for the class that you are wanting to enter. Some classes require the handbrake be there.

[Taz]

The size of the brakes does not govern the balance, a bias adjuster does.

You may also want to check the CAMS regulations for the class that you are wanting to enter. Some classes require the handbrake be there.

Yes, but it would be useless to govern more power to the back when the brakes cant and were not originally designed to handle such heavy constant braking?
And yes ive checked the CAMS regs - i will be running with the evos n what not, which in turn will be running with the NA 4wd's - classes are 4cyl/6/8, with forced induction bumping you up a catagory and awd/4wd having a separate ladder as well, so i wont be running with GTR's n the like for the regular runs - and im not sure what else i would qualify for having plexi windows, only a basic dash and cage, but hopefully a few sprints and series open to almost anything - it doesnt however specify anything about the handbrake so i will have to have a deeper look or talk to a spokesperson or whatnot who does know the rules etc.

[silverGPX]

[Bennoz]

+

[wagonist]

I've never heard of any classes "requiring" the handbrake.
The only 2 forms of motorsport you want to keep that kind of system are motorkhana/gymkhana & rallying.

I think with your proposal to use the EVO 5 Brembos on the front, then the bias wouldn't be effected too much, if at all.

The biggest hassle of this would be getting someone to make the brackets to hold the caliper on the rear (it would require the use of a mill), though is helped heaps by the factory system of a bolt on bracket onto the rear suspension.

Happy to design & draw you something up in CAD, but like I said, I wouldn't know how to incorporate the ABS sensor part onto it.

[Shane001]

The size of the brakes does not govern the balance, a bias adjuster does.

Sorry Bennoz but that's not entirely correct

Although the factory bias valve does set the front / rear brake bias, this is set based on the ratio of braking power front / rear.

Increase the size of the front rotors and piston area, and you move the effective brake bias / balance forward.

Increase the size of the rear rotors and piston area, and you move the effective brake bias / balance rearward.

There are some pretty complicated formulas to work all this out, but a good start is simply to create a spread sheet comparing the rotor diameter / piston area of the stock brakes with the rotor diameter / piston area of the brake upgrade. This will give you a percentage difference. Do this for the front and the back and you can calculate pretty easily the percentage difference in brake balance.

From here you can work out whether you are going to have any problems or not.

A lot of people upgrade front brakes without giving much thought to balance, and most people get away with this on the street as moving brake balance forward is not nearly as dangerous as moving brake balance rearwards. But as soon as you look at upgrading rear brakes also, you really do need to look at what the overall effect is going to be on the braking balance of the car.

You might think by upgrading the fronts and rears they will remain relatively balanced, but when you do the sums you might be shocked to realise how far rearwards you have moved the braking balance of the car.

[aza013]

Would this still be so if you take the full kit off the evo and put it on the fto?
Or will the car set up it self come into affect as well?

[Shane001]

What do you mean full kit?

If you take front brakes, rear brakes, brake lines, brake booster, master cylinder, bias valve, pedal assembly then the only variable will be the overall physical characteristics of the vehicle, ie mainly weight distribution.

[aza013]

Sorry just calipers and rotors.
This is more out of interest than any thing.

[Shane001]

upgrading the fronts tends to have less (negative balance) effect than upgrading the rears. Only way to know is do the sums.

[Bennoz]

The size of the brakes does not govern the balance, a bias adjuster does.

Sorry Bennoz but that's not entirely correct

I know mate, but I really couldn't be arsed explaining myself this morning Especially as this is still a pipe dream thread!