I.C.E suggestions on a budget...

[SilentBob]

Well...im thinking about a stereo upgrade in the FTO and wondering if people have any suggestions as far as components go..

Im thinking along the lines of
-head deck(must have mp3)
-front splits(i already have splits in the front as factory fitted, but i assume a decent set would be better sounding and power handling)
-small sub in boot
-seperate amps to run fronts and sub, and run existing rear 6*9's off head deck..

Budget...well excluding installation prolly around the 1k mark, + or - a bit....this isnt a set figure, more along the lines of what i'd like to spend...if more is needed then so be it..

Im not looking for hi-fidelity sound, ive got my home stereo for that, but something a little better in terms of clarity, volume and somewhat bass(im not into doof doof by any means, hence the 'small sub' comment)

Any suggestions???

SilentBob

[rxboy]

I'm also currently researching all my ICE options and I have concluded that anything decent will cost me more than $1.5k (not including the head deck). When I say decent, I mean something much better than the stock speakers as anything less will not be worth the money. If you're going for 2 amps, then you're looking at even more $$$. I suggest you save up more money

[SilentBob]

I have more money...its just this figure is easily 'justified' to me

What suggestions do you have after your research?

PS i should note that I do have access to some brands at relativly cheap prices...if i go with brands like Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony, JBL then I am able to purchase the components at cost price due to my work place(which in some cases in not many $ less than JB, but on middle range gear is usually a bit cheaper without that annoying 'haggling' thing)

[rxboy]

Some suggestions based on other members' comments and my own research:
1. Sony/Panasonic/JVC/Kenwood are poor value for quality (and probably Pioneer).
2. don't get JB Hi-Fi install.
3. check out the speaker continuous power output (not the max) and frequency response.
4. wrt frequency response - don't forget the human ear cannot detect past 20kHz.
5. JL subs are good value

I want to run front splits and sub off 4 channel amp. I have found that most decent 4 channel amps cost around the $600 mark. The cost will be marginally higher if u go for separate mono-channel AND 2-channel amps.
A good 10" sub will cost around $200-$300 with extra for an enclosure. Decent splits will be $200+ and installation varies. I'm sure you'll get better prices due to your work, so you'll probably stay under $1k.

I think I'll stick to Alpine all around, but I'm also considering the Cadence amps.

[GPXXX]

my Cadence 4ch amp (Q4000) set me back for $350, but that was mates rates so i'm sure if you're good at haggling you can push the RRP down to $400 easily.

as for splits, i have to say a decent pair of splits will set you back from more like $250 (i'd highly recommend Hertz, PG or Boston). also you need to be sure that th splits will be able to handle the power fed by the amp as well coz otherwise it is very easy to blow them (esp the cheap and nasty ones from Kenwood or Sony that can handle up to 55wrms etc).

your options for subwoofer will also depend largely on what type of music you listen to. If you listen to a lot of DOOF-DOOF techno or trancey stuff, then a good 10" like the JL Audio or Kicker in a sealed will rock your world with its solid punch... again, the design of the enclosure (ie: ported, sealed or isobaric) could play a part in the sound quality as well.

12" are more for all-rounder type of music and also capable to withstanding more punishment from the amp. i got a 12" in my car and i listen to a variety of different music all the time (depending on my mood) so it gives me a nice balance... If i want tighter bass or punchiness, i can always stuff the internals of the enclosure with dacron foam for less boominess.

finally with head units, it is preferable to have a subwoofer controller function built in, but other than that it's really a matter of taste interms of design, features, usability etc etc...

installation wise, again it depends on what you require but if you want custom this and custom that, then obviously you're upt for more $$$. as a rule of thumb, you should expect to pay up to $200-$250 for a basic enclosure, then from about $100 to $150 to hook up the remaining items (ie: amps, speaker & head unit) depending on how many amps or speakers you wanna install...

[rxboy]

I've been told that it's better to underpower your speakers a little.

I've been checking the price of the Cadence Z4000 amp at JB Hi-Fi, and it has remained a solid $699 for 6 months without budging, even when sales are on. Maybe, the Q4000 is the way to go.

As far as subs go, I've heard the JL Audio 10" W0 sub and it's really good. Was better quality and price than an equivalent Kicker sub. Plus it comes in its own custom sealed enclosure. Hard to decide between the Alpine Type R and the JL-W0.

[Hez]

i like your choices GPXXX hertz and bostons have unbelievable splits for their price.

Underpowering your speakers is very bad, Remember fully power a 10" sub is better than half power 2 10's!

You should listen to the Rockforf Fosgate range there entry level subs are better than most range. But the JL is very good too, from the top of my head its rated as 125WRMS for the JLW0.

I think a kenwood KAC-8401 would do nicely on your budget and power. 60W x 2 at 1kHz 0.08%THD + 180W at 1kHz 0.8% THD (3 Channel Mode) (4 ohms).

[GPXXX]

1. it's 'safer' to underpower your speakers because if you feed it with too much power from the amp (more than it can handle) then yes you WILL blow it. then again, underpowering your speakers will also determine how loud it can go and if it's underpowered then you are not realising its full potential...

2. out of all the subs mentioned (JL, Type-R, Kicker) i would still go with the JL Audio 10" - i'm still very impressed with their overall performance for a 10", perhaps even more so than my 12" PG Tantrum but hey since i only paid $50 for mine, i'm happy...!! hehehehe...

3. i'd stay away from any kenwood stuff - even the Cadence amps provide better bang for your buck. many ppl tend to underestimate Cadence products, but i can tell you it has converted me from being a traditionalist Alpine worshipper, LOLz...!!

4. if you get the Z4000, make sure you go for the carbonfibre shroud option - they look NUTZ!! i only got a Q4000 and they don't come with it, but as i plan to chrome-polish the cover soon, it doesn't matter anyway...

[scracy]

Rxboy whats wrong with Pioneer? Their home stuff is pretty ordinary,but their amps and especially their head units are amongst the best on the market. All my car stuff is Pioneer and Infinity and sounds fantastic. Even my Pioneer cd player in my ute coupled with Reference series Infinity splits sounds great. My ute package consists of Pioneer Deh 1450 head unit, Infinity 605cs 6.5 inch splits, Pioneer Gmx 562 amp sounds great even without a sub and cost me around $800. The fto set up on the other hand cost me substantially more around $5000 but the sound is as good if not better than many home stereos. As for kenwood well basically imatation alpine and even alpine has dropped of over the last few years. Sony stuff is pretty good but not as good value for money. Most japanese speakers sound crap, best bett is to buy quality american speakers, they dont look as pretty but they sound heaps better.
ps: never under power your speakers always have a more powerfull amp as it is distortion that destroys speakers not power!
psps: Have a listen to the mechanism noise from an alpine cd head unit, by comparison the pioneer ones even the cheap ones have a quiter mechanism than alpine. Spend more on speakers and less on the head unit if you want good sound,as speakers ultimatly determine the end result. Try a Pioneer Deh-p3550mp head unit about $369 as a start maybe add a pair Infinity reference 605cs for front $349 and a Pioneer gmx 562 2 channel amp (these have been supperseeded so you can pick them up relatively cheap around $299 and are a better amp than the current models which had a recall funnily enough) As for sub woofers Infinity subs are very good but pricy maybe get a sub later? With subs sealed enclosures give you less boom but much tighter cleaner bass. Vented encloseres (also known as bass reflex) give you more depth and boomyness but dont sound as clean. A bass reflex enclosure needs to be designed properly (they use thiele and small paremeters) to design the enclosure. These parameters are needed to work out box volume port volume etc. An of the shelf enclosure generaly wouldnt be suitable for subwoofer use as every subwoofer has different parameters, sealed is a cheaper and better option if your on a tight budget.

[GPXXX]

yeh i have to agree - some of Pioneer's headunits ROCK!!

...that's until you see some of the latest offerings from Sony (with the TFT/LCD display worth approx $2K :shock:)

but yes sound quality comes from the speakers, not headunits...

[rxboy]

Rxboy whats wrong with Pioneer?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. Just heard from another member (can't remember who) that Pioneer speakers are too pricey for their level of quality. Haven't confirmed this myself yet.

ps: never under power your speakers always have a more powerfull amp as it is distortion that destroys speakers not power!

What about the sub? Should I try to match it's power with my amp, or should I under/over power it?

[HEK-71Q]

Rely on american brand speakers/subs such as Rockford Fosgate, MTX, Boston...theyre good quality, i knoe they a fair bit expensive but u get a whole lotta out of it... dont get ones made from taiwan, china, so on n so forth as they dont last and have poor quality. One more thing about installations....be careful where u get your sounds installed as shops often have contractors, if your sounds stuff up, u cant chase the bloke who did a dodgy installation as he no longer works there..u gets?? JB is one of them....*hides*

[HEK-71Q]

...that's until you see some of the latest offerings from Sony (with the TFT/LCD display worth approx $2K :shock:)

man the 1 that u saw only plays cds...n thats worth 2k+
the 1 im gettin is also compatible with memory sticks and that retailing around 4k!!! n ebay sells it under 1k!!! SO U KNOE WHERE IM GETTIN IT FROM!

[scracy]

Same deal with sub as with speakers. When an amp is being driven too hard its output transistors are whats called "clipping" which we hear as distortion. Generally this distortion is what destroys speakers because the amplifier no longer has the ability to control the speakers cone movement. Power can also destroy a speaker but this is less likely because you can hear when a speaker is being overdriven ie: it will sound bad and make a popping sound. Most car amplifiers are a class ab amplifier which means they have output transistors in pairs ie: one to amplify the top half of a sine wave (+ tve half) and one to ampify the bottom half (- tve half) . The point at which they switch also causes distortion. A true class A amplifier doesnt switch at all since one transistor amplifies both halves of a sine wave, hence they sound much better,but are very power hungry and ineficient,no good for a car! Beware of power ratings when it comes to amplifiers the ONLY true power measurement standard is RMS (root mean square) over the entire bandwidth ie:20Hz-20Khz at a nominated total harmonic distortion (THD). A power rateing at 1Khz in rms is ameaningless figure since music contains many frequencies not just one. Look for a figure expressed something like this 75 W min. rms both channels driven from 20Hz-20Khz with no more than 0.05% thd @12v. This would be REAL watts not WALLY watts!!!!!

[Guest]

I differ with scracy's opinion on Pioneer amps, they are not that good and are expensive, they also had a massive recall a few months ago where they were catching on fire. Pioneer speakers are also only average.

I just bought a Q4000 also & JL VR600csi splits, pretty much the best JB stock. Got them both for $680
You can get decent splits for a cheaper price but not for JB, look at Boston or hertz or Phoenix Gold

Dont even look at Pioneer, for entry level subs look at a cheap kicker, JL or Cadence they are over $250 but the difference is noticable

Pioneer head units though are the best

[scracy]

Agreed pioneer speakers arent all that good except some of their more expensive ones (yellow cones) but at that price you could buy infinity or polk or focal. Pioneer did have a recall on their latest generation of amps as i stated earlier, the ones i have recomended are their previous models which sound good and are quite cheap since theyve been superseeded and there is still some stock around. Amps are like speakers in that they are very subjective,like speakers they all sound different and all the theory in the world cant compare to what each individual thinks sounds good.

[Hez]

Well different brands are better in different areas. Pioneer headdecks are great. whereas pioneer speakers are crap. American Speakers are by far better sound quailty and quailty. This may sound bias but most importantly listen to a demo car or sumthing and decide for urself which suits u.

[GPXXX]

Well different brands are better in different areas. Pioneer headdecks are great. whereas pioneer speakers are crap. American Speakers are by far better sound quailty and quailty. This may sound bias but most importantly listen to a demo car or sumthing and decide for urself which suits u.

demo cars are only a good indication of how good the given setup will sound, because the same setup could sound completely different in another car (with a midget cabin like the FTO).

the same could be said when buying speakers/subs from JB or anywhere really... another option is to meet fellow FTO owners with ICE installed in their cars so you can listen to the quality for yourself and go from there...