Sam's Turbo Setup progress **FINISHED INSTALL** pics

kid_dynamite · Post by **kid_dynamite** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:19 pm

Samson wrote:would it be better to leave stock injectors in untill ecu?

Errmm.. I think I've spoken to you a bit about it on MSN. I think would be wise to keep the car off the road, go straight from install -> tune and no short cuts. I guess it depends though - do you need the car to drive around in? If not leave it be.

When the turbo kicks in the car will need the extra fuel which the standard ECU cannot supply. Lean running conditions = detonation. Too much detonation = time to look for a new motor.

On the other hand, as I said you put in large injectors on stock ECU, it will overfuel. How much so depends on how large the injectors are over stock but it's generally not a good idea anyway. Running too rich will kill your plugs early and if you have platinum / iridiums in the FTO it's expensive and a pain to keep replacing them.

And if you have turbo + stock injectors + stock ECU, you're asking for heaps of trouble IMO. Of course you might be able to keep it off boost if you're sensible but it's something I wouldn't consider or recommend.

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:40 pm

Okay... i need to drive the car down to taree nsw (500km) on saturday. and they're only offering to tune the stock ecu because they promised me it would be ready by then. I've already paid $800 towards the thing. If I drive carefully.. and try to avoid boost.. but doin 110km/h down the highway i would be sittin on 3,500rpm or so...

I really need to drive the car to nsw this weekend... If not both my parents and gf will murder me for not seeing them...

mxysxy · Post by **mxysxy** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:34 pm

rent a car

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:38 pm

f**k that! for a month???

Post by **Bennoz** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:47 pm

Be cheaper to buy a $500 sh*tbox & drive that!

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:54 pm

awww cmon... so theres no way i can drive it with no microtec??? and is totally impossible to retune the stock ecu?

Post by **Bennoz** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:03 pm

The poms have been trying to figure out how to retune the stock ECU for years...

So far they have a 6 page thread to show for it

http://www.ftooc.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=18530

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:37 pm

righto... my tuner is gonna call into the mech's to have a look at the car... he said something about leaving the bigger injectors out... dunno what he plans to do though... i did mention detonation and he said he will see what he can do but will know more once he has a look over it...

RedlineGX · Post by **RedlineGX** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:46 pm

Technically you can drive the car once you dont go over 1psi on boost.
Timing and fuel are not really an issue off boost. In any case you shouldnt go on boost for a couple days to let the turbo break in and make sure you let it idle for a while before you drive the first few times.

Keep an eye on the oil return line to make sure its not leaking etc.

Samson wrote:i did mention detonation and he said he will see what he can do

Not quite the words I'd want to hear about the most important part of tuning!

As far as injectors go, I'm running standard injectors on 5psi right now and have just reduced the map since it was running too rich so standard injectors can supply the fuel once the rest of your system is up to it. Right now I have a rising rate FPR and an EVO8 walbro pump. How big are the injectors you bought to change?

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:54 pm

390cc injectors...

when he said he'd see what he could do he ment if he could get it running or not... detination = no driving...

is it possible to reduce the boost from 5psi?

RedlineGX · Post by **RedlineGX** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:02 pm

Depends is your wastegate internal or external? If it's external then sometimes just disconnecting the vaccuum will cause it to stay half open which will stop you from making boost easily. Btw how do you plan to limit to 5psi? Is the internal or external wastegate a 5psi spring?

390cc are overkill for 5psi
Standard injectors are 166 x 6 = 993
390 x 6 = 2340 thats almost 2.5 times the fuel for maybe a 35% increase in power/air.

You will definitely need management to control them. Doubt the car would even start without it. Certainly wont idle.

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:16 pm

Has internal + External wastegate...
Im not getting injectors put on yet.
What can i do?
P.S. Redline: Thanks a million for your help! your being a lifesaver mate! F**k i love this club!

RedlineGX · Post by **RedlineGX** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:56 pm

Ok when you say internal plus external, one would be for safety. Its pointless having two unless one is a failsafe in case the other stops working which isnt a very common thing since its a fairly basic mechanical device.

You need to find out the spring rates in the wastegates..if you have for instance a 5psi spring in the external and an 8psi spring in the internal, the external will open at 5psi and the internal will never open since there will never be enough pressure(8psi).

But you need to know because the boost you run will be dependent on the lowest spring rate. You can use a boost controller to increase it but not decrease. Btw an external wastegate will do a better job than the internal which usually tends to leak or open a bit too early. Also they can suffer from boost creep which means they might still let you slowly boost past the spring rate if they are not large enough.

I had an internal but i welded the hinge so it no longer can open and use external only.

My pleasure with the help that's what the forum is for. Always good to see another turbo fto

If i were you i would run the external (depending on spring rate) disconnect the vaccuum line to it and when you start it you should realise instantly if it is opening off boost, since it will be expelling air. If so you should be ok to drive temporarily since you will be off boost just make sure everything else is working ok. Also make sure you have a boost gauge to monitor boost since you dont want to be going on boost.
Go straight to the tuner though and drive slowly keeping rpm as low as possible.

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:07 pm

thanks a million... as far as i know both are 5psi..

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:30 pm

alright, going to go get a Rising rate FPR and a boost guage....
Also looking into a wideband air/fuel guage. is there something that could do all this in one? like wideband A/F and Knock Sensor, etc...
Mechanic said he might could disconnect the vacuumm and see if that helps. Any other ways i could restrict the turbo making so much boost? or delaying it to the later rev range?
i plan on being SUPER carefull with it the whole trip and back... Then hopefully it will be ready for a tune and be complete... just pushing the mechanic to get it done by Sat...

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:16 pm

Your two choices I see are -

1. Keep the waste gate open so you dont come on boost at all and then you will be running within your normal parameters, kind of like what Redline said or

2. Disconnect the manifold from the turbo and stick a filter on the intake. Then you will just be running stock but with a bit of exhaust restriction from the turbo. So long as the oil lines, etc are working on the turbo it should be okay. It aint gonna damage your engine anyway.

Get proper engine management for Chrimbo!!

HTH

Arashi

RedlineGX · Post by **RedlineGX** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:05 am

Storm wrote:Your two choices I see are -

2. Disconnect the manifold from the turbo and stick a filter on the intake. Then you will just be running stock but with a bit of exhaust restriction from the turbo. So long as the oil lines, etc are working on the turbo it should be okay. It aint gonna damage your engine anyway.

Get proper engine management for Chrimbo!!

HTH

Arashi

That is true but if I understand what you are saying correctly you will not be getting any exhaust gases passing the 02 sensor in the exhaust(behind the cat). This means no lambda reading which means engine will/should default go into error mode and run extremely rich. I have in my wideband and when I tested that it seemed it was actually running very lean, as though the computer wasnt picking up the error and wasnt over compensating as it should, so I would reccommend the wastegate open idea first for sure, plus it would be a lot quieter.

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:07 am

Okay, i bought a TurboSmart Street Rising Rate FPR..
Also got a saber Boost Guage. Has sensor in engine bay and send electrical signal to guage... no vacuum hoses through to cabin!
Mechanic is putting on the FPR and I'll put the boost guage on as soon as i get the car.. Want to make sure i never get onto boost.. well not for a few weeks anyway

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:13 am

Also i may not get a chance to get on the net for a while... going visiting over xmas then staying with mates till feb.. then i'll have net again... so if u guys dont hear from me for a while it doesnt mean i found boost and found a tree to go with it...

nosman · Post by **nosman** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:27 pm

Cant wait to see ya man, Might go out sometime ah

FTO AUSTRALIA

Sam's Turbo Setup progress FINISHED INSTALL pics