Oils aint Oils Sol

MuMan · Post by **MuMan** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:46 pm

Had any problems with oils?
I've been running Mobil 1 5w50 syn.
The cars only done around 98,000 and I'm getting all sorts of cold start noises..lifters, rod knock..you name it.
After warm up it's ok, only the lifters seem to take longer to quiet down.
Shouldn't happen with a 5w synthetic hey. I changed the filter and tried a couple of different brands..Valvoline the worst, Ryco the best..but the problem persists.
Don't know if the oil is the problem, but I'm not using it anymore.
any suggestions..

What are you guys running?

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:14 pm

Here's one that Khunjeng prepared eariler.

http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... engine+oil[/quote]

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:12 pm

MuMan wrote:Had any problems with oils?
I've been running Mobil 1 5w50 syn.
The cars only done around 98,000 and I'm getting all sorts of cold start noises..lifters, rod knock..you name it.
After warm up it's ok, only the lifters seem to take longer to quiet down.
Shouldn't happen with a 5w synthetic hey. I changed the filter and tried a couple of different brands..Valvoline the worst, Ryco the best..but the problem persists.
Don't know if the oil is the problem, but I'm not using it anymore.
any suggestions..

What are you guys running?

If all else being equal, oil pressure is inversely proportionate to flow rate, the higher the pressure the lower the flow. You are starving your engine of precious oil during startup and before oil temp is up to operation temp

5W50 is way to thick man you cold start visc. rating will be through the roof. Only good for high performance cars with extreeme temps - not for an FTO considering the spec is 5W30 or something similar..

I have written a few words in that link...

If your going to change the oil again:

Use Mobil 1 at least...good for the price.

Use an OEM oil filter...they are been proven to be much better than Ryco in a number of tests for flow and filtering. These are easy to get and only like $10 from Mitsi so there is no excuse..they can also help with a bit of pressure which is good for the lower rated 10W30 oils...

MuMan · Post by **MuMan** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:37 pm

Thanks for the advice guys..yeah I read the thread.
I was goingt to go to a purolator filter, but if Mits. is ok, then that's what I'll go for.
I thought the 'w' rating was the key for cold starts, like if it was 0 or 5w it was fine, regardless of the high temp rating...so have I got that wrong?

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:41 pm

MuMan wrote:Thanks for the advice guys..yeah I read the thread.
I was goingt to go to a purolator filter, but if Mits. is ok, then that's what I'll go for.
I thought the 'w' rating was the key for cold starts, like if it was 0 or 5w it was fine, regardless of the high temp rating...so have I got that wrong?

in theory you are correct. However the specs show a slightly different story. As these oils are multi-grade they are a blend of different weights in order to maintain a wide operating range..10W50 for example is very wide.

The higher the spread between the bottom number and the top number the more VI improvers are relied on for maintaining the viscosity. Better to keep the numbers closer. VI improvers are not oil and break down much faster (Sheer) and start to degrade your oil fast...

But as for the numbers check this out as a guide. Your numbers (if your using a more common brand will be much bigger ) look at the line Vis @ 40deg...this is your cold start...notice how the numbers are quite large as the spread becomes bigger regardless of the the first number.

Comapre 5W30 to 15W50 for example...massive difference in viscosity...thats your issue...but notice at 100deg...the difference isn't so much..

http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf

MuMan · Post by **MuMan** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:26 am

Looking at that, 5w40 seems to give a better compromise between low/high temp viscosity 94/15.1/4.6 than the ultra low viscosity oils and the thicker varieties. Seems you loose a bit in the cold start range compared to 5w30 or 5w20, but retain higher vis., film strength, at operating temps. A better compromise maybe.
I'd like to see the test results at 0deg.C for comparison.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand low vis. mineral oils/blends use the 'w' rating as the base oil, with added polymers to extend the viscosity. Where as syn. oils are based on the higher rating as the base product, with the natural properties of the syn. base plus some improvers to provide the 'w' rating.
So that being correct, there's a world of difference between say:
5w40 mineral oil/blend and 5w40 synthetic.

My concern basically is the ambient operating temp that the oil is subjected to. When you look at SAE recomendations, for instance ambient temps of up to 100degF call for SAE40, 20w40 or 20w50 which kinda flies in the face of recomendations for 5w30 for instance.
Ambient temps I encounter are around 40degF up to summer temps of 105degF. So basically I'm wondering how some of these low vis. oils perform at that temp, especially in a turbo engine, where exhaust temps are very high, and turbo bearing lubrication is critical.

I'd rather sacrifice some low temp performance and warm up an engine if that was necessary, in order to have high temp protection, without compromise. Not so critical in the FTO maybe, but I run an MR2 turbo as well, that is fairly extensively modified...and expensive

So am I on the wrong tram or what?
Also heard from a lot of sources that the 5w30 and even 10w30 result in a dramatic increase in oil consumption..not that is a problem in itself.

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:21 am

hey man looks like your doing your reasearch nice one.

Basically your oil temp will determine your engine viscosity choice, if you are frequently over 110'c then the 50wt oil will be more suitable then the 40wt. If you are running below avg 90'c oil temp then a 30wt oil would work just as fine...thats if u have an oil temp guage!

Dont compare a mineral to a syn. no comparision really you should only use a mineral oil in a new engine...but never in a run in engine. the stuff about addatives, read what I wrote..its VI improves and when it comes to sheer they perform sh*t...hence the recom. of a close number 10W30 or say 15W40..keep them close. However with redline they use very little if not no VI improves so its cool with them..this meeans better oil life..sheer is the killer in oils, lesser blends with VI improves break down quickly so their specs might look good but they dont last.

Just stick with the 5/10W30 in summer. There's no real need to go thicker as the oil temps will still roughly be the same when its the motor is hot anyway. Film strength for the redline is really high 3.8 is massive. Mobil1 0W40 is about 3.6 other brands are much lower. So 3.8 is very good and IMO your getting really good pertection.

Its harder to find info on other brands but I can get it for comparision. Post you current brand and I will find their specs. Remember that the redline specs are much better than most of brands..

Post by **Bennoz** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:47 am

No one think to mention that the lifters can be adjusted

RedlineGX · Post by **RedlineGX** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:46 pm

I ran redline 10/30 in my car before turbo and 10/40 now and would highly reccommend this oil.

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:39 pm

Bennoz wrote:No one think to mention that the lifters can be adjusted

hahah yeah got side tracked talkig sh*t...

but I think his initial issue was about some crazy noises at start up...

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:05 am

If your lifters are noisy, just change them! I did and I dont get tapping much anymore!

Best oil i found for noisy lifters is magnetec period.

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:06 am

RedlineGX wrote:I ran redline 10/30 in my car before turbo and 10/40 now and would highly reccommend this oil.

i find this oil good at the start crap after it get a tad old.

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:38 am

payaya wrote:
RedlineGX wrote:I ran redline 10/30 in my car before turbo and 10/40 now and would highly reccommend this oil.
i find this oil good at the start crap after it get a tad old.

It seems u base your judgements based on tappet noise. Any other evidence?

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:41 am

nope thats it!

With my old lifters noise was very evident very early in the oils life.

MuMan · Post by **MuMan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:51 am

It's not just lifters, the startup noises included rod knock and a few others, although the lifters stay the longest. It only started on Mobile 1 5w50. The strange Part is if you change the filter, it stops for a few days.

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:13 pm

MuMan wrote:It's not just lifters, the startup noises included rod knock and a few others, although the lifters stay the longest. It only started on Mobile 1 5w50. The strange Part is if you change the filter, it stops for a few days.

apart from the stuff already stated..the filter has an effect on oil pressure. Maybe as it started to move more our of bypass when its new.

nope thats it!

With my old lifters noise was very evident very early in the oils life.

I have found that also as I have run my oil for about 10k and only started to notice a slight noise develop in the lifetrs...but my noise is not much so i never really worried. Lets see what happens on the next change in a week or so.

MuMan · Post by **MuMan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:21 pm

not sure what was going on. I came across this post on filters, worth looking at.
http://www.aus-cartalk.com/auspoc/techs ... ilResearch

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:32 pm

MuMan wrote:not sure what was going on. I came across this post on filters, worth looking at.
http://www.aus-cartalk.com/auspoc/techs ... ilResearch

yep

I have read that a few times in the poast and has some great info and worth reading...notice the results...Ryco = not so good

HLA = lifers..

great info for anyone intrested...I think put a link to this somewhere...

MuMan · Post by **MuMan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:57 pm

^^ your certainly right. I was surprised to see the results on the Ryco filters, as I thought they'd be a bit better than most.
Think I'll be taking your advice and staying OEM.
Have you got a link to Mobil 1 specs? be interesting to compare them to Redline.
Redline and Amsoil get good raps in the MR2 community, probably exclusively, as the best to use.

I had a couple of guys tell me they stopped using Mobil 1 in their MR2's as they were getting a lot of noises with it, but i suspect it's not just the oil causing the problem.
I've changed over to Mobil 1 5w30 in the FTO, with a purolator filter (already had one) so I'll let you know how it goes.

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:17 pm

MuMan wrote:^^ your certainly right. I was surprised to see the results on the Ryco filters, as I thought they'd be a bit better than most.
Think I'll be taking your advice and staying OEM.
Have you got a link to Mobil 1 specs? be interesting to compare them to Redline.
Redline and Amsoil get good raps in the MR2 community, probably exclusively, as the best to use.

I had a couple of guys tell me they stopped using Mobil 1 in their MR2's as they were getting a lot of noises with it, but i suspect it's not just the oil causing the problem.
I've changed over to Mobil 1 5w30 in the FTO, with a purolator filter (already had one) so I'll let you know how it goes.

Hey man which one exactly? i.e. whats the model nuber or label say?...from your desciption you might be using this one...specs in the link

http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/ ... per_HP.asp

It seems to have a good HTST rating and good startup rating which is what you were after.

Did the noises go away??

People knock oils...much like they knock clutches..usually they have used the wrong one for the wrong applciation then complain...

The 0W40 would have been a std choice. But as your comming up to summer it would be good to see how you go with the 5W30..

FTO AUSTRALIA

Oils aint Oils Sol

Oils aint Oils Sol

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