Re: 6a13 non turbo block with 6a12 mivec heads
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:01 am
Because you were hell bent on giving all your money to rpw. That & I rarely get time to brain dump like that on a forum.
You've gotta understand the point of view all this is coming from, Im a mechanical engineer by trade with about 15 years experience in building cars.
Its not easy trying to dump every bit of knowledge I've got down on a piece of paper, or in this case a forum, all before I go to work of a morning
The prices I've quoted above would also require a fair amount of work from the person who attempts this. If I was doing this, I'd be sourcing the 6A13
motor & pulling it out myself, I'd strip it myself too & then hand it too the machine shop, I'd also pull the old motor out myself & strip that too.
Take that self labour out of the equation, its still gonna be 8 grand... and please don't take this as offensive, but combine your mechanical knowledge
with that of the 1 shop in Tasmania that can do anything remotely like this, and this would end up costing you the equivalent of a deposit for a house.
Plus, watching your project with interest, you are the kind of guy who wants things done now, if not sooner. Don't get me wrong, that not a bad trait
to have, but something like this will take a lot of time. Some of the project engines i've built have taken years to get right. I've fired up hand made monster
engines before for the first time & had them completely detonate. *Bang!* there goes 10 grand. "Ok, back to the drawing board, what did we do wrong?"
I've gone through at least 6 engines in my mini before I found the right combination of both useable horsepower & reliability.
Now excuse me whilst I go on a bit of a rant
Todays modified car scene pisses me off to no end. Really sh*ts me to tears, just picking up a Fast Fours magazine & browsing through. Todays super speed
society of want more power & want it now attitude has completely fucked the engineering knowledge base this country once had. Yeah great, I can go wack on
a bigger turbo & get another bazillion horsepower, plus I can even click the link on this suppliers website & have it delivered tomorrow! That's all good & well, but
tell me this, how do you tri-seat a valve & improve the flow of that cylinder head? No petrol headed kid will be able to tell you. In days gone by, you had to earn
your horsepower. Painfully & inch by inch removing metal from blocks & heads for better flow, or increasing capacity. Insidiously grinding the ports out in your
exhaust headers to ensure they match the head ports to within a few thousands of an inch. Now, try & find me a workshop that has a set of vernier calipers?
They'll look at you cross-eyed. I once had a carby off at the side of the road to unclog one of the primary venturis (most of you wont know what that is!) and
I dropped the carby. Cracked the entire housing from top to bottom. Did I call the NRMA? No, I ripped off some fencing wire from the side of the road & bound
the carb together, twisted it off with plyers & bolted it back onto the manifold. The car started first turn.... and it lasted almost 5 years like that.
And to make matters worse, todays petrol heads are one eyed! There are only a handful of engines they even look at! RB26, SR20, B18B etc.
What happens when you want to give mum an extra 20kws in her little old pulsar? Well you cant, because you cant find anything on any website for it!
Oh hang on, well we could port the head, put bigger valves in & a mild cam... but who's gonna know that? What kid today has the know-how to at least
pull the motor apart & get the bits down to an engineer to have them done? None of them. The kid will get on a forum like this, be told not to bother because
his local mechanic will charge 10 grand to do it. So what will he do? Get back on that website & order the big turbo. A job that will inevitably cost him more than
10 grand.
Big horsepower race motors not only have the big turbo, but they also have the match ported head, the big valves, the double valve springs, the high range cam
profile and the big bore pistons. Can you image how much power my car would make if I hand crafted all the internals like that? I'd be over 300kws! And in fact,
that exactly what I intend to do. For example, my car makes around 250kws now and everything on it is standard! Standard turbo's, standard interals, standard
everything on the motor, yet it is well tuned & put together with care & paitence - in contrast, Mr Charisma's car makes 300kws, only 50 more than me, and yet
he has a turbo so big it could suck the f**ken dags off a Terrier at a 100 yards!
For fucks sake, I even pulled the head off my lawn mower, ported it & decked it! You should see how quick I can mow the bloody lawns! Its annoying because I
barely get time to finish my beer
Anyways, enough ranting. Moral of the story is, you all need to come to my house & drink beer whilst we look at an engine block on my worksop bench. I'll tell you
everything you need to know.
Yes - your cams would be ideal for this - proven first that they actually work. Do me a favour, take a week off work, drive to Melbourne, put those cam gears on, put
the car on a dyno & get it tuned properly. With what you've done, you should be well in excess of a 140-150 kws.
Oh, and get off my lawn!
You've gotta understand the point of view all this is coming from, Im a mechanical engineer by trade with about 15 years experience in building cars.
Its not easy trying to dump every bit of knowledge I've got down on a piece of paper, or in this case a forum, all before I go to work of a morning
The prices I've quoted above would also require a fair amount of work from the person who attempts this. If I was doing this, I'd be sourcing the 6A13
motor & pulling it out myself, I'd strip it myself too & then hand it too the machine shop, I'd also pull the old motor out myself & strip that too.
Take that self labour out of the equation, its still gonna be 8 grand... and please don't take this as offensive, but combine your mechanical knowledge
with that of the 1 shop in Tasmania that can do anything remotely like this, and this would end up costing you the equivalent of a deposit for a house.
Plus, watching your project with interest, you are the kind of guy who wants things done now, if not sooner. Don't get me wrong, that not a bad trait
to have, but something like this will take a lot of time. Some of the project engines i've built have taken years to get right. I've fired up hand made monster
engines before for the first time & had them completely detonate. *Bang!* there goes 10 grand. "Ok, back to the drawing board, what did we do wrong?"
I've gone through at least 6 engines in my mini before I found the right combination of both useable horsepower & reliability.
Now excuse me whilst I go on a bit of a rant
Todays modified car scene pisses me off to no end. Really sh*ts me to tears, just picking up a Fast Fours magazine & browsing through. Todays super speed
society of want more power & want it now attitude has completely fucked the engineering knowledge base this country once had. Yeah great, I can go wack on
a bigger turbo & get another bazillion horsepower, plus I can even click the link on this suppliers website & have it delivered tomorrow! That's all good & well, but
tell me this, how do you tri-seat a valve & improve the flow of that cylinder head? No petrol headed kid will be able to tell you. In days gone by, you had to earn
your horsepower. Painfully & inch by inch removing metal from blocks & heads for better flow, or increasing capacity. Insidiously grinding the ports out in your
exhaust headers to ensure they match the head ports to within a few thousands of an inch. Now, try & find me a workshop that has a set of vernier calipers?
They'll look at you cross-eyed. I once had a carby off at the side of the road to unclog one of the primary venturis (most of you wont know what that is!) and
I dropped the carby. Cracked the entire housing from top to bottom. Did I call the NRMA? No, I ripped off some fencing wire from the side of the road & bound
the carb together, twisted it off with plyers & bolted it back onto the manifold. The car started first turn.... and it lasted almost 5 years like that.
And to make matters worse, todays petrol heads are one eyed! There are only a handful of engines they even look at! RB26, SR20, B18B etc.
What happens when you want to give mum an extra 20kws in her little old pulsar? Well you cant, because you cant find anything on any website for it!
Oh hang on, well we could port the head, put bigger valves in & a mild cam... but who's gonna know that? What kid today has the know-how to at least
pull the motor apart & get the bits down to an engineer to have them done? None of them. The kid will get on a forum like this, be told not to bother because
his local mechanic will charge 10 grand to do it. So what will he do? Get back on that website & order the big turbo. A job that will inevitably cost him more than
10 grand.
Big horsepower race motors not only have the big turbo, but they also have the match ported head, the big valves, the double valve springs, the high range cam
profile and the big bore pistons. Can you image how much power my car would make if I hand crafted all the internals like that? I'd be over 300kws! And in fact,
that exactly what I intend to do. For example, my car makes around 250kws now and everything on it is standard! Standard turbo's, standard interals, standard
everything on the motor, yet it is well tuned & put together with care & paitence - in contrast, Mr Charisma's car makes 300kws, only 50 more than me, and yet
he has a turbo so big it could suck the f**ken dags off a Terrier at a 100 yards!
For fucks sake, I even pulled the head off my lawn mower, ported it & decked it! You should see how quick I can mow the bloody lawns! Its annoying because I
barely get time to finish my beer
Anyways, enough ranting. Moral of the story is, you all need to come to my house & drink beer whilst we look at an engine block on my worksop bench. I'll tell you
everything you need to know.
Yes - your cams would be ideal for this - proven first that they actually work. Do me a favour, take a week off work, drive to Melbourne, put those cam gears on, put
the car on a dyno & get it tuned properly. With what you've done, you should be well in excess of a 140-150 kws.
Oh, and get off my lawn!
ill be there and the thing bout the fto is we cant be like that cause there are no add ons no one cares bout us enough to build a turbo add on im keen for more power but i no its not as simple as wacking in a hair dryer and be done with it as ive seen from your engine build cars interest me if i wanted power i wouldnt have bought a fto ild be driving a wanka holden like every other toss p plater ive owned a corolla and a fto and never once touched the engine bay for proformance and prob wont untill im off my Ps but as a p plater im interested in NA tuning