FTO AUSTRALIA

koolio1234 wrote:Will definitely get some more power with a good tune.

What surprises me though is you managed to get 250nm of torque at the wheels while running so lean significant increase from a stock fto which supposedly produces 200nm at the flywheel

a lot of dynos read the torque levels higher.

payaya wrote:

koolio1234 wrote:Will definitely get some more power with a good tune.

What surprises me though is you managed to get 250nm of torque at the wheels while running so lean significant increase from a stock fto which supposedly produces 200nm at the flywheel

a lot of dynos read the torque levels higher.

that could be a possible explanation for it as the torque figure sounds fairly out.

More likely the fact that its a chassis dyno, aka wheels off & direct driven from the hubs. You don't get as much loss as your not trying to turn the wheel mass.

Sorry.. But what is the expectation of power here....?

An untuned or stockish FTO will put upto 110 at the wheels on a roller dyno quite easily, and a lot of guys here are at that..... So this car of yours has had some pretty pricey work down, and is currently @ 103...

I must be missing something...

Bennoz wrote:More likely the fact that its a chassis dyno, aka wheels off & direct driven from the hubs. You don't get as much loss as your not trying to turn the wheel mass.

um the wheels were on? it was on rollers... wasnt from the hubs.

rock_it wrote:Sorry.. But what is the expectation of power here....?

An untuned or stockish FTO will put upto 110 at the wheels on a roller dyno quite easily, and a lot of guys here are at that..... So this car of yours has had some pretty pricey work down, and is currently @ 103...

I must be missing something...

its running super lean. no petrol no power. just look at how insanely lean its running there's no way it could be making any decent power with no petrol. like i said he asked why my engine hasnt melted a piston or anything yet.

plus with the extent of my mods especially the cams it needs to be tuned. you cant just chuck cams in without tuning. my mechanics did that and it ran like sh*t. they pulled out petrol cos it was running rich. but because they are retards they pulled out so much it could kill my engine. stupid f*ckers.


with the cams the timing would be out everything is out. its just runnning like absolute arse. it needs a full comprehensive tune.

also if u read the graph properly and my explanation of it in that post i said he stopped. he didnt rev it out the full way. hence its more than 103 but he didnt want to risk blowing the engine cos its running so lean.

7500 rpm is pretty much our redline isnt it?

anyways, i hope it works out for you mate ...

7500rpm is red line for a GR if I can recall right, the GPX has a 8000-8300rpm.

if thats the graph of the Air Fuel ratio at the bottom there it is running pretty rich.

The most powerful combination of air to fuel is 14 parts air and 1 part fuel. However, this runs your engine pretty hot so to be safe u needa run a bit lower than 14 to prolong engine life.

I think with his upgraded cams his redline would be a little bit higher in the end (or his max power @ rpm it might be 500-1000 higher). Ie. Max power in a gpx might be at about 7500 standard but it revs past 8 so you can get in a better torque zone for the next beer. He might have max power at 8 grande' by the end and rev limiter set at 8.5-9, and since it revs higher with more torque because of his mods he'd have more power that way...

SG wrote: better torque zone for the next beer.

mmm beer

rock_it wrote:Sorry.. But what is the expectation of power here....?

An untuned or stockish FTO will put upto 110 at the wheels on a roller dyno quite easily, and a lot of guys here are at that..... So this car of yours has had some pretty pricey work down, and is currently @ 103...

I must be missing something...

His is a tip and a gr at that and started at 70-80kw (cant remember exactly).

whats the bill up to now Val?

I8A4RE wrote:

rock_it wrote:Sorry.. But what is the expectation of power here....?

An untuned or stockish FTO will put upto 110 at the wheels on a roller dyno quite easily, and a lot of guys here are at that..... So this car of yours has had some pretty pricey work down, and is currently @ 103...

I must be missing something...

His is a tip and a gr at that and started at 70-80kw (cant remember exactly).

whats the bill up to now Val?

Mines a mivec. But it did start at 79 which was ridiculously low... I will reveal how much at the end. Please keep in mind this has been an absolute mess and everything has pretty much gone wrong and its all just retarded.

*i do not take responsibility for any heart attacks or anything that may happen to anyone as a result of me revealing the amount

Thanks Simon.. I knew I was missing stuff which was why I asked..

Have not played around with air fuel ratio's and that was the first graph I had seen of it..

I think I remember a mivec tip getting about 90kw atw stock. But that may have been for an unabused one with relatively low km's. Manual should get around the 100kw atw mark when stock.

koolio1234 wrote:I think I remember a mivec tip getting about 90kw atw stock. But that may have been for an unabused one with relatively low km's. Manual should get around the 100kw atw mark when stock.

I reckon the original manufacturers claim of 200HP is a bit of bullshit. So many don't even get close to that.

200hp when new running on jap quality fuel i don't see why not. You gotta remember these engines are now all old and a lot with unknown history and/or questionable mods. 200hp for 2L is just on the magical n/a output vs displacement barrier, certainly do-able by manufacturers if they were instructed to. Honda engines of the same era had even higher specific output per displacement and have had no issues maintaining close to factory specified output over the years.

Valandis,

Your engine is running dangerously LEAN. Someone said rich above but rich is when you have plenty of fuel/black smoke coming out of your exhaust.. if it was running rich then that's kinda better than running insanely lean. At that lean of a tune, i'm surprised you didn't hear massive pinging/detonation when you were giving it after receiving the car back.

As for your power curve moving up higher in the rev range...the last i read of your cam from what i remember, weren't the non mivec range left as standard and the mivec lobes slightly tweaked ? You're not going to find massive power gains but will likely have decent gain OVERALL. I wouldn't be trying to up the rev limit heaps and see if you have more power that way - not unless you've taken care of the rods, crank, bearings, valves, springs, pins etc.

To me, it's just crying out to have the final few bugs ironed out then get a quality tune on it with perhaps a few hundred rpms added before fuel cut - oh and see if they can set ignition cut instead of fuel cut on your ecu/piggyback. Goodluck

Delvance wrote:200hp when new running on jap quality fuel i don't see why not. You gotta remember these engines are now all old and a lot with unknown history and/or questionable mods. 200hp for 2L is just on the magical n/a output vs displacement barrier, certainly do-able by manufacturers if they were instructed to. Honda engines of the same era had even higher specific output per displacement and have had no issues maintaining close to factory specified output over the years.

Valandis,

Your engine is running dangerously LEAN. Someone said rich above but rich is when you have plenty of fuel/black smoke coming out of your exhaust.. if it was running rich then that's kinda better than running insanely lean. At that lean of a tune, i'm surprised you didn't hear massive pinging/detonation when you were giving it after receiving the car back.

As for your power curve moving up higher in the rev range...the last i read of your cam from what i remember, weren't the non mivec range left as standard and the mivec lobes slightly tweaked ? You're not going to find massive power gains but will likely have decent gain OVERALL. I wouldn't be trying to up the rev limit heaps and see if you have more power that way - not unless you've taken care of the rods, crank, bearings, valves, springs, pins etc.

To me, it's just crying out to have the final few bugs ironed out then get a quality tune on it with perhaps a few hundred rpms added before fuel cut - oh and see if they can set ignition cut instead of fuel cut on your ecu/piggyback. Goodluck

thanks for the info, i know its running insanely lean. before it was running really rich and had the black smoke. suprisingly it doesnt ping. but it does bog down. i just thought it was the cams. i didnt know what to expect since no ones done it.

the non mivec cams have actually got a lot more lift and duration with the mivec cams only having a bit more since theyre so extreme already. im not raising the rev limiter.

i cant wait to get it finally properly tuned. should see quite a big difference.

thanks man

cos im so busy working i sent the map from my car to my tuner. he checked it out and said it doesnt look to bad. and is nice and smooth. is there any other reason the car might be running lean?

i reckon it just needs more fuel across the board. its just not running right.

oh and i forgot to mention since the AFR sensor was in 1 of 4 exhaust outlets would that make much difference to the AFR?

there is screw before the cat that was put in to use while tuning for AFR's but the day i got the dyno we didnt have enough time to chuck it on the hoist to access it.

help is greatly appreciated.

off the top of my head

- injectors blocked? not adequate? fuel pump going ok, might be a blockage of sorts in the fuel system.
- o2 sensor fucked


Do you see much fuel go through the exhaust system, afm sensor might be detecting too much uncombusted fuel in the exhaust system and trying to under-compensate fuel making it run lean? just a guess by the way. Tried resetting the ecu? any error codes?

These are just some of my thoughts, maybe someone with more experience can chime in.

When talking about 200hp don't forget that is at the fly wheel (factory stats)
Unless you pull the motor out and set it up to a dyno to do a power run you can't compair those numbers.