FTO AUSTRALIA

Got my 60,000kms service yesterday and booked the car in for a dyno tune today - I have to say I'm quite stoked with the results, considering that I've only got very minimal mods done to the engine... In fact I got a little more than what i expected...

Mechanical mods so far only includes: Apex'i AFC, 2.5" cat-back exhaust & Apex'i pod filter.

With only the cat-back and pod filter, the initial run managed a best of:
105.5kw @ 7649rpm / 295.6nm @ 4776rpm

2nd run with a tuned S-AFC (incl cat-back and filter) netted a healthy:
106.7kw @ 7411rpm / 296.7nm @ 4757rpm.

Note that there is a slight rich mixture for a brief moment when the MIVEC kicks in, but I'm told this is normal for variable-cam'd engines incl Hondas. Car feels much nicer to drive now, revs very smoothly and responsive on the throttle... The torque figures does seem a little 'suss' to me, but hey I'm happy...

I shall scan a copy of my dyno sheet as soon as I can, but I just thought y'all might be interested to know the results for the meantime... WATCH THIS SPACE, hehe...

If y'all are interested in posting the results your dyno run, please provide a scanned copy of your dyno sheets as well (just a way to back-up your claims)... I am also more than happy to host the file for you if required.

p/s: Toni, i had a look at a copy of your 98kw dyno run from the MCCR Dyno Day and yerrr I could see it was pinging quite badly as soon as MIVEC kicked in... might pay to check your ignition timing and/or get it tuned properly... But still, that's a damn good figure for a stock standard MIVEC manual, even though it's pinging LoL...

edit: oh and for the sake of preventing another shitfight, let's not get into the variable dyno debate ok... let us all just take it as it is and learn from 'constructive criticism' rather than pissing off other fellow members...

Mikey, the most important thing for you to do, is to record the settings of the dyno. That way you can use today's results as a benchmark for future tests.

Next time you go back (to the same dyno), you would then set it up EXACTLY the same way as today, then you could do a TRUE comparison and see if any mods you make get a performance increase.

Nice =)

Seems like you've got a good engine pulling that sort of power without extractors =)

That now gives you no excuse for not being able to keep up with me, well in a straight line =)

It would be interesting to see what you got on the same dyno with the same dyno setup, Eric.

Damit mikey, after u send me the msg about your figures, i've changed my mind about the extractor, cause theres only few kw differen't, but theres almost $800 dollars different in my pocket. hmmmmm $$ vs kw ratio, i think i leave the extractor back to my mechanic place.

Hey Mikey, where did you go to get your car Dyno tuned??

so the s-afc made minimal differnce?

the car was dyno'd at Technik Tuning (Thornbury). I was gonna get it dyno'd at Hypertech but they've had a change of business and will no longer do any dyno tuning in their workshop... what a shame but anyways, very nice bunch of fellas to deal with...

and yeah, the AFC only made about 1.2kw gain, but this is largely due to the inherent design on the ancient model that I've got because it only allows adjustments across the entire rev band rather than specific RPM's (like the new ones). I'd say with a new S-AFC fitted, there may be another 1.5-2kw or so on tap because there could be more adjustments that could be made to smooth out the power curve after MIVEC kicks in (you'll understand what I mean once I post the dyno graph).

On the bright side though, power kept climbing on its way to the top so yeah you can pretty much change gears at 7500rpm without having to worry about losing power at the top end hehehe...

unfortunately for safc fans, the safc ii is not compatible with fto, so we can only use the original safc

has anyone got unichip or powerchip and can tesify how much imrpovements they got at the dyno?

Well Kev has a Unichip fitted on his GPX tiptronic but it has yet to see any dyno time so it's anybody's guess at this stage... I would love to organise a dyno day for the Vic members but it all depends on how many ppl are interested.

Ill be in a vic dyno day Mikey It would be interesting what the output of my car is post "dodgy torque converter" see if i can improve on 135kw.

GPXXX wrote:Well Kev has a Unichip fitted on his GPX tiptronic but it has yet to see any dyno time so it's anybody's guess at this stage... I would love to organise a dyno day for the Vic members but it all depends on how many ppl are interested.

Yeah i've the Unichip fitted, but i took it out already, as i was planning to fit the extactor & re-tuned it again. Its currently sitting at home doing nothing

So when u planning 2 do this dyno day Mikey? So i can organize to fit the Unichip back on again.

Isn't 105kw atw from a "150kw stock engine" a bit too low???
I think the 131kw 1.6 MIVEC does just under 100kw...

i'm quite upset with that result..

105kw is 70% efficient if it was from a 150kw stock engine.. A loss of 30%

Thats what we should be getting without mods..

Is the fto overrated???

Hmmm a DC5 Type R (Jap spec Type M) had 147kw at engine, yet 98kw atw on the dyno. So it seems to me its kinda right figure for an FTO to have around 105kw atw from 150kw

Well this means the type r has about 67% efficiency...

If the fto is similar to the type r and has around 67% then 105kw atw equates to about 157kw at the flywheel. A 7kw gain.

This sounds about right having those mods.


But then my GR, rated at 134kw, is getting 94kw at the wheels. Lets say this is ALSO 67% efficient, then my flywheel figure is 140kw at the flywheel for a stock GR!!

As I've stated before.

You must remember that a lot of our cars are at least 5 years old now, running on fuel that is lower spec than japanese fuel. (I think their premium has a RON rating of 102)

Also there are a lot of places where power can be lost on a rolling-road dyno.

Even the type of tyre you have can influence it.

People are too worried about the total power output of the engine, you are only the rev range where total power is acheive for a microsecond ( then you have the change gears soon after)

You should be more worried about your torque curve at the wheels.

Sure you can hunt down areas where you are losing power (uprating your clutch, rebuilding your transmission, getting a more efficient torque converter) but there is more to a car than the engine output itself and how the power delivery systems put that power down.

I hear you eric and i agree,there is more to a great car than just horsepower anyone can make a car go quick in a straight line but how does it stop,go around corners etc?I stated on a previous post that the losses on a manual fto would amount to around 30-35% and around 40-45% for an auto fto and got canned for doing so,one bloke recconed as little as 15% loss?Well what can i say except that i feel vindicated

I`ve got a unichip in my 94 Tip GR. I was very disappointed with the overall dyno results but the unichip did increase by quite a lot.

Pre: 77 kW atw
unichip: 86 kW atw

I don`t know whether it was this particular dyno setup, or what, but I have raced at willowbank and feel there is a lot more than 86 kW

Jeff

P.S. If someone tells me how to post the dyno page I will post it if people are interested.

Perhaps we should have a competition to see how many different dyno readings you can get from the same car!

Jeff, there is no standard by which dyno's are calibrated, therefore each dyno will give a different result. The kw reading means nothing, unless you are comparing it to another car on the exact same dyno, with the exact same settings. What is valuable about a dyno, is the graph of the power curves it produces (the trends, not the specific values), and to set a benchmark for future testing.

As mentioned above, the best thing Mikey (or anyone else who gets a dyno test) can do, is to take note of all the settings. Then when they do some modifications, they can go back to the same dyno, set it up the same way it was before and then do a comparitive test. If they take it to a different dyno or set the dyno up with different values, then it will not be an accurate comparison (apple-to-apples, apple-to-oranges)

It would appear you did things the right way, testing it before and after (assuming the settings stayed the same). It could well be that your car and Mikey's are much closer in power output, but due to the different dynos and their settings, you get two different kw results. So don't worry about the apparent kw differences, as it's not accurate.