FTO Cams

TA · Post by TA » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:02 pm

Hey all,

just looking for some advice!

The story goes...

I had some noisy tappets over the past couple of weeks. Had my car go in to the mechanic last Tuesday, this was IS Motor Racing in Rockdale. Going there i was under the assumption that the tappets in my GPX were adjustable and after their adjustment there will no longer be any noise.

Went on Wednesday to pick up my car. The car was still tapping maybe even a little bit louder. His response, the mechanic, was that he adjusted the tappets in my motor. However, from memory, I'm no mechanic, this is what i was told, something like... In my motor there are two cams, the mivec one and normal one? Well in the mivec one, the tappets, lifters? are adjustable with a tool but in the normal cam they are hydraulic.

I was then told that there are some 24 hydraulic lifters in my motor and they had died. The outcome of this was a car still having a tapping noise but being told that no damage would be done to my motor with the present noise, having 'dead' hydraulic lifters was OK?!?!

Well on Friday night, i was just driving round with mates, on the highway doing bout 70km/h. After stopping, getting food then leaving again, i came to realize my car had lost its 'grunt'. It really wasn't at all that powerful and i became to worry. Planting my foot to the floor my car really wasn't going like it tended to in the past. Suddenly when approaching a set of lights my car kept turning off. Doing 80km/h and having my car turn off while driving?!?!

This continued to happen my hole way home, to the point that i was at a stand still on Canterbury road! The car sounds worrying, the tapping noise is just as loud as ever, rang my mechanic he said its un-drivable and to have it towed to my workshop tomorrow. Being no professional, the sound of my car sound really worrying. Not normal and unhealthy. Being only 17 and going to mechanics, i feel as if in a sense im 'stepped' on. As in he can tell me anything about this problem, throw me a big quote and have me nothing to say as have little to none knowledge on the problem...

Is there any advice as to what to say tomorrow, or any way as to which i should go about approaching the mechanic about the problem?!

Is there also anyone who has an idea of what this problem is and the cost it will be to solve?!

Cheers Tim! =]

manofwood · Post by **manofwood** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:34 pm

firstly, you cant have 2 cams with 24 hydraulic lifters. it has 4 cams, 2 to drive the low range, 2 to drive MIVEC high range, with 24 lifters in total for 24 valves (4 per cylinder).

i cant tell you if the non MIVEC lifters are adjustable or not (hydraulic ones normally arent) , but the MIVEC ones definitely are. If this has happened to your car after you've taken it to the mechanic, he's done something wrong to f**k your engine.

You normally can drive a motor with dead lifters as far as i've seen, but sometimes depends on the type of motor (like commodores for example). Some motors would be more sensitive to this. 6A12 would definitely be in the sensitive category.

Take it back or get a second opinion, or wait for more answers here...

TA · Post by TA » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:38 pm

ahhh 4 cams....

yerrr i was told that the non-mivec ones for the lower revs were dead and couldn't be adjusted. This was evident cause when mivec kicked in, the tapping noise would cease.

But now, the car doesn't even reach the mivec, the noise it makes really isn't explainable.

yeah it did happen to my car after taking it to the mechanic, what should i tell him?!

I also think he has a bit to do with f*****g the car up!

Post by **aza013** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:23 pm

all the tappets are adjustable in the GPX if he is saying only one set can be adjusted well

I cant coment on it sorry

after having my ones done with Pulse they are sweet as befor it was like I had a truck motor under the hood

so I would say get it back to the mechanic and tell him he F**Ked up and all repairs are to be done at $0 cost.

TA · Post by TA » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:30 pm

Aza are you saying the mivec cam lifters are also adjustable?!

so all lifters in my car should be adjustable?!

not only the lower cam ones?!

Post by **Bennoz** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:49 pm

They are all adjustable. Its only one set of lifters per 2 valves.

Read here for the 'how it works'

http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... 6&start=20

TA · Post by TA » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:41 pm

My last comment i wrote was the wrong way round, the mivec ones are adjustable however the others are not?!!?

TA · Post by TA » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:51 pm

Reading through your description, I kind of understand how the cams work, it is VERY complicated but thank you!

So the loud noise tapping when i turn on my motor on idle would be the lifters/headers hitting the valve?!

Wouldn't this mean too much hitting would cause harm/ a mushroom type head?! flatten it out?!

RalliartBoy · Post by **RalliartBoy** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:53 pm

Thank you for sharing your experience with us as i know last week you were decidedbetween IS Motorsports and Pulse Racing and went with IS due to the lower price.

I guess that couple of hundred you saved now seems insignificant.

I have been very interested to your progress as my lifter/tappets are a little on the loud side sometimes and i also went to a mechanic near my work who told me that they can't be adjusted and that he would have to take the head off and do some work with that and wanted over $1200 !!

As the story goes, i ran, not walked, away.

Good luck with the car now and i hope the mechanic accepts some responsibility and fixes the problem.

The thing is he obviously doesn't know s*it about FTO's and may do further damage.

Not sure i would want my car going back there even if it is free!!!

I don't know Pulse Racing and have never used them but the people that have swear by them so maybe just bite the bullet and go straight to them, at least they know the car and will do a good job.

Keep us updated.

manofwood · Post by **manofwood** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:50 am

yeah 12 lifters

not 24 (me stupid).

you should be able to fix them yourself if you're keen. although i dont know if this method is applicable to a Quad overhead cam motor.

You can take the covers off, exposing the 'head gear'.
Get a feeler gauge at the correct factory spacing between lifter/ tappet (whatever) and valve (i've only ever done this on OHV motors so i'm not sure), have someone with you to turn your motor on while you put the feeler gauge in between the lifters and valves while adjusting to get all the correct tolerances, turning the motor off after each lifter is adjusted.

Its apparently the best but messiest method of adjusting the tappets as oil will be kind of splashing around, so keep towels handy (hence the constant turning on/ off of the motor). From what i've seen, its works very well, but its an old method that a 70's mechanic showed me....

TA · Post by TA » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:43 pm

No problem Ralliart, this also has been a great concern for me to and i do love learning more and more about my car!

So let me just re-affirm what i have learnt.

In my car, there are 24 valves, 12 lifters in total. 2 lifters per valve.

With the 24 valves, 12 lifters half are for the mivec cam/higher cam and half for the lower cam. Is that correct?!

If the lower (hydraulic?) lifters have died, which is what i was told, what is the result?!

RalliartBoy · Post by **RalliartBoy** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:41 pm

manofwood wrote:yeah 12 lifters not 24 (me stupid).

you should be able to fix them yourself if you're keen. although i dont know if this method is applicable to a Quad overhead cam motor.

You can take the covers off, exposing the 'head gear'.
Get a feeler gauge at the correct factory spacing between lifter/ tappet (whatever) and valve (i've only ever done this on OHV motors so i'm not sure), have someone with you to turn your motor on while you put the feeler gauge in between the lifters and valves while adjusting to get all the correct tolerances, turning the motor off after each lifter is adjusted.

Its apparently the best but messiest method of adjusting the tappets as oil will be kind of splashing around, so keep towels handy (hence the constant turning on/ off of the motor). From what i've seen, its works very well, but its an old method that a 70's mechanic showed me....

You lost me at hello !!!

Post by **Bennoz** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:30 am

There are 24 valves. 24 tappet adjustment points (1 per valve) and 12 rocker arm assemblies. Forget the number of rocker assemblies, its irrelevant.

See above pic with 1 tappet adjustment point per valve.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:40 am

Another example of quality workmanship

Dude i would be writing evrything down, what your car was like before hand, what he did (exactly what he said he would do) and on what date, how the car was after, what he said again. He definitly fucked your car and should be fixing it for free, otherwise its small claims court time. Write everything down with dates and time, you may not need it but if you do you will be glad you recorded everything

TA · Post by TA » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:39 pm

ohhh ok thanks Ben!

so the lifters have little to nothing to do with the noise?!

so when im told my hydraulic lifters have died i...?

I am writing the dates...

thanks for all the help guys!

Post by **Bennoz** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:46 pm

Yes lifters can be the noise. Can you show us a pic of your engine?

Only GR's have hydraulic lifters. GPX do not.

Sugar · Post by **Sugar** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:53 pm

lol i had the same noise..

everybody was it.. tappets tappets... tappets...

on the m7... tapping getting louder and louder

get to the toll, and the car died..

say goodbye bottom end

i honestly hope this isnt what happened to you.

even mitsubitshi said it was the tappets and its ok to drive.

TA · Post by TA » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:55 pm

db, that is exactly what happened to me...

what happened next to your car?!

and ben, havent got pics, sorry... car at mechaninc now...

can hydraulic lifters be adjusted on GPX.... oh mine doesnt?!

hmmmm wtf... time to call mechaninc!

Post by **Bennoz** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:09 pm

GPX's DO NOT have hydraulic lifters. Only GR's (non mivec) have hydraulic lifters.

Here, let me summarize:

GPX Mivec
Adjustable lifters
NOT Hydraulic

GR Non mivec
NOT Adjustable
Are Hydrualic

Sugar · Post by **Sugar** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:24 pm

lets just say i needed a new engine from it...

i actually bought 2...(meh said engine i bought was fooked and i needed another one!)

f**k i hate incompetence

i hope its not the same yours though mate i really do, i would'nt wish what to my worst enemy

expecially as your a young chappy