WOnt start

Tippin · Post by **Tippin** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:47 pm

dunno if this helps but have u checked out your headlights when u turn the key, caus im pretty sure if they dim when u turn to ignition then it generally indicates a bad starter (which it seems you have already found that out) but if the headlights dont dim then it most probably the solenoid itself which has a bad connection with the starter or it may just be a worn solenoid switch, which i think u will need to replace the whole part if that is the case

anyway good luck man

Post by **I8A4RE** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:28 am

Jamie wrote:If you can short between the positive terminal and the starter and successfully start the engine I can only determine 4 possible causes for the fault(assuming your wirring diagram is accurate). Either the ignition switch, starter relay, Neutral saftey switch or the starter soleniod.

Theres only one thing i left out of the diagram and that is the alarm immobiliser but i have no idea how that is wired.

1. Check the battery voltage

= 12.66v

2. Check the voltage at the ignition switch(both power and switch wire)

=12.45v constant power at ignition. 12.25v at switch wire when turning over

3. Check the starter relay is engaging and measue the voltage

Where is this relay?

4. Check the voltage at the starter solenoid(both power and switch wire. if there is no voltage then I would guess that the neutral saftey switch is faulty)

12.4v constant power wire and 10.4v at switch wire

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:05 pm

I dont believe it would be the alarm immobiliser. Not 100% sure how they work though but from what I read you can still start the engine but it will cut out after 30 sec or so. This causes the thief to think there is an intermitted problem with the engine. However this may be a brand specific design.

I dont think the starter relay would be faulty if you are getting a complete circuit at the starter solenoid. You also said that you can start the car by bypassing the starter solenid which shoul prove the starter motor should be fine. This should mean that the starter solenoid itself is rat s**t.

What did the auto electrician say?

Post by **I8A4RE** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:11 pm

OK, this is weird.

the switch wire at the starter solenoid has 10.4v when its disconnected. But as soon as i reconnect it back to the solenoid it no longer has any volts.

??????? is that not weird?

ps thanks for help jamie. and i didnt take it to auto elcetrician wanted to try to fix it myself

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:26 pm

Ok I just went and checked on my FTO and belive the starter relay is in position 8 in the engine bay fuse box. Dont quote me on that though as it is difficult to switch the ignition and check the relays by yourself. Missus is at work. Hope you have someone helping you.

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:41 pm

To me that would mean that the solenoid has a short to ground.

Does this mean when you measured the voltage (0v) it was reconnected and the ignition switched on? If so be cautious. If I was looking at the right relay it was rated at 40A. You dont want to be on the recieving end of that.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:54 pm

Jamie wrote:Does this mean when you measured the voltage (0v) it was reconnected and the ignition switched on?

Yes 0v when connected to solenoid.

Umm no.8 relay? i have painted over my fuse box cover

Post by **I8A4RE** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:58 pm

To me that would mean that the solenoid has a short to ground.

Yeah me too, but how does that happen and how do i fix it?

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:19 pm

Umm no.8 relay? i have painted over my fuse box cover

There should be a row of five relays on the right side of the fuse box. Number 8 should be the fourth one up.

Without looking at the solenoid im not sure what would have caused it or what exactly the problem is. Not sure if I will be of any more help, it will be difficult to diagnose problems on this level without getting hands on.

Is the soleniod on the starter motor or is it seperated by a length of cable?

Kace · Post by **Kace** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:47 pm

Hi I8A4RE - it's me from the O2 Lambda Sensor question.

I am watching this thread with baited breath as I have exactly the same issue as you and have been stumped by this for months now. I also haven't been able to find anyone else that has the same problem.

Only difference between you and I is that this happens to me about 1 in 50 times when I start the car. I just get a small click first time, then absolutely nothing. The very strange thing is, once it happens to me, sometimes the car will eventually start after trying it 5 or 10 times, Other times I have just had to abandon the car for a while (sometimes a few hours or overnight), then when I come back and try it, it starts without a problem.

Because this only happens to me infrequently, I have got around it temporariily by taking a wire from the starter up to the battery area. Whenever my car won't start, I just pop the hood and touch the starter solenoid wire off the battery positive terminal and she starts no problem. Not ideal but it works.

Apart from that I'm in same boat as you, except I haven't done the electrical analysis that you have done so far due to my lack of a good jack / axle stands and electrical know-how.

Any progress on your side ?

Post by **dstocks** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:07 pm

If t helps a new crank angle sensor is worth about $70 + postage. Just got an answer back this arvo

Post by **I8A4RE** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:34 pm

dstocks wrote:If t helps a new crank angle sensor is worth about $70 + postage. Just got an answer back this arvo

Is that brand new???? I got quoted 95 from a wrecker (second Hand

). Im not sure i need this as i disconnected the CAS plug and the car wouldnt start therefore it is fine. however im still getting a CAS error so i may need it soon, not sure but i REALLY appreciater you finding this out for me.

@ Kace, i will keep you posted. I am guessing at this stage it is the inhibitor switch. It happened to me about a 2 months ago when i went to the shops but because i was having battery issues at the time i dismissed it as being part of that problem and not a seperate issue.

I would have had a solution to the problem by now but all the gold coast/brisbane members are *~delightful!~* and wouldnt let me borrow their cars even with a offer of free beer

I have made up a wire that i connect to the starter solenoid switch and the positive battery terminal on the starter motor, it works great but i will take it into a auto electrician as soon as i can. Is it not funny that i have no problems with the car while i have time off work but as soon as i start a new job......bang. Im not too pissed off though a) it could be worse and b) Ive hardly had any problems with her so far

Post by **dstocks** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:44 pm

Is that brand new???? I got quoted 95 from a wrecker (second Hand ).

Yep, brand new. Doesnt include postage from Japan to you, but thats it

Kace · Post by **Kace** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:28 am

I think my issue is almost definitely the ignition switch itself, however I need to do some proper diagnostics on this to confirm.

Is it easy to remove the full covering around the steering wheel underside to get at the wiring and the switch itself ?

Post by **vipfto** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:10 am

@ Kace yes very easy just 3 screws under steering wheel cover then should all just unclip

@ Simon have you not had any luck with trying another starter/solonoid?
i'm 99% sure this is your prob

Post by **Bennoz** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:20 am

vipfto wrote:@ Simon have you not had any luck with trying another starter/solonoid?
i'm 99% sure this is your prob

+1

History tells us they are a weak point. Not the starter itself, but the solenoid bolted to it. Swap out the starter.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:35 pm

Bennoz wrote:
vipfto wrote:@ Simon have you not had any luck with trying another starter/solonoid?
i'm 99% sure this is your prob
+1

History tells us they are a weak point. Not the starter itself, but the solenoid bolted to it. Swap out the starter.

First off none of the qld ppl would let me borrow one of theres

(ill remember this

) and secondly i have found a recond one but its $195 (exchange) and if its not the problem i cant return it

jonowong · Post by **jonowong** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:28 pm

I8A4RE wrote:
Bennoz wrote:
vipfto wrote:@ Simon have you not had any luck with trying another starter/solonoid?
i'm 99% sure this is your prob
+1

History tells us they are a weak point. Not the starter itself, but the solenoid bolted to it. Swap out the starter.
First off none of the qld ppl would let me borrow one of theres (ill remember this ) and secondly i have found a recond one but its $195 (exchange) and if its not the problem i cant return it

doesnt sam have a wreck?

Post by **I8A4RE** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:52 pm

yeah i checked with him and he doesnt

Post by **vipfto** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:16 am

Still no go yet Simon? dont tell me you have actually had to work and not been spending days playing with the car and posting on forums