Electrical/Electronics Help Needed

[Shane001]

Slowly making progress with the eManage Ultimate on the racecar but I need some help from those wiser than me

I've solved the idling/revving issue. Turns out it doesn't like it when you connect up the water temp sensor wire for logging. No idea why but disconnecting this and it idles fine again. In fact everything seems to be working fine except one annoying little issue.

When free revving the engine while logging (being that I can't take this out on the road, I'm only able to test this revving the engine in the garage...), the timing goes into negative numbers around 5400rpm. For example, at idle the timing shows as 8 to 10 degrees, as you build revs the timing value increases up to around 35 degrees, then all of a sudden at around 5400rpm the timing now shows as negative 80 degrees. Let it back to idle and it's showing as negative 110 degrees. The engine still idles fine and still revs fine, but timing shows in the range of negative 110 to negative 80, rather than positive 8 to 35. Turn the ignition off and restart the engine and it's back to positive again until you rev the engine again.

I had previously attempted to see if it was generating any error codes but it doesn't appear to be. Turning off the engine, earthing the connector as per Ben's thread and turning the ignition back on and nothing, no codes. I'm starting to think this may not be a problem with the eManage. Maybe it is doing this without the eManage connected, I'm just not noticing it as I'm not logging/monitoring the timing with the eManage connected. Obviously it can't actually run at negative 110 degrees timing, so it's a signal issue, not an actual timing issue (big assumption here lol?).

Question is what can I hook up to monitor this signal without the eManage connected. ie I've now wired the eManage so it is easy to connect and completely disconnect. So if I can rig up something simple to monitor this timing signal, and confirm what I'm seeing on the eManage logging while the eManage is connected. Then if I disconnect the eManage and I'm still seeing the same thing on the separate monitor without the eManage, then obviously this issue has nothing to do with the eManage to start with, am I making sense?

Also how can I monitor if Mivec is or isn't kicking in?

Fingers crossed someone in Syd can help. I really need to get this working so I can tune this at EC in 2 weeks... Gonna need some more power at Bathurst this year

[Bennoz]

When data logging, what have you got the timing set to read from? The crank / cam angles or the rpm signal?

[Shane001]

Thought of that, but it's not something that can be set.

According to the manual it is supposed to read this off crank & cam sensor feeds, but it appears to read it off a combination of the crank and the actual ignition coils. One of the tests I did on the weekend was to bypass the ignition coil wires (10/11/23) (by bypass I mean no longer passing through the eManage) and when I did this I lost the timing signal in the logs.

I spent all Saturday re wiring and crosschecking all the wiring and jumper settings. Then all Sunday running test after test just trying different things but just can't get rid of this issue. But the thing is I don't know if it is actually an issue or not, or just a glitch in the logging on the eManage.

Interestingly, when I disconnect the wire to 89 (crank sensor) from the eManage and tested this, the idle was showing timing as 115 degrees! And then dropped to 5.9 degrees after revving to 6K! So the opposite of what was happening. f**king weird sh*t lol!

[Bennoz]

Have you tried without either the crank or cam signals?

Alternatively, I've got a new guy to do my tuning closer to home. Not far from you either, he's in Thornleigh. Spose I can ask the question of him when I head back there next week.

http://www.todaracing.com.au/toda/gp/

Website is a bit out of date, but the mobile is still good. Guys name is Adrian. Does a lot of Hondas.

[Shane001]

Yep, cam had no effect. Crank was as posted above.

Yeah I'm going to ring Greddy Aus and ask them who they would recommend in Syd. Problem is I need someone who is willing to come out to look at it, as taking it to someone just takes up too much time.
Was thinking I might ring one of the mobile mechs. If they have the equipment to monitor the system I can then test with and without the eManage and hopefully determine whether or not there is actually a problem.

Do you know how to tell if Mivec is kicking in? Does it kick in when free revving also?

[millsy]

i cant really help with the revving prob, sounds like something in one of the ecu's (not a problem, just something withing the ecu that just does that normally, nothing you can fix with a certain circuit, eg, if your digital tv flicks the tv guide to a day later or something, it doesnt mean the power cord is shorting) it might just be one of those things that the ecu program just does for one reason or another (unless someone else with an fto (with same specs, right down to the same electronic mods) does get a reading,) but it might be something you have taken off or something modded that somehow connects to the ecu, like lowering the mivec point.

and as for the mivec point during free revs, i am pretty sure i could hear it, and i looked and there arent many circuits connecting to the mivec circuit that would dis-allow it if you arent moving (no correlation to wheel speed sensors, speed output, handbrake, ect). maybe there is something i didnt look over though (which could be another factor that isnt making ya emanage get a propper signal, the wheel speed sensors or something might need to be going aswel). but im sorta sure its always active, you just cant hear it well because cars sound a lot different when there is resistance against the crank (like in gear and moving, hence 2gear mivec is much more promanant than 1st gear, as the whole 1st gear hasnt got as much resistance from 3000-8500rpm than 2nd and so on)

just expaning your mind with some outside thought, obviously u would know a lot more about the emanage than me, id expect you guys to do the same,

[Shane001]

Did some more testing with this today, other than the logging/timing issue everything seems to be fine, so I'm seriously thinking this is just a logging bug on the eManage. I think the only way to know will be to take it to the track...

To answer my question above about Mivec, to confirm the electrical circuit is working and activating correctly all you need is a simple test light. Connect the clip to earth and pierce the wire to the mivec connectors under the bonnet that goes back to the ecu. When the engine is revving below 5500rpm (or thereabouts) the light will be on, as the engine goes above 5500rpm the light goes out. Pretty simple eh Of course this confirms the electrical circuit only, it doesn't confirm the hydraulics under the rocker cover.

So I tested mivec with and without the emanage wired in today, no difference. So my problem is having no effect on mivec activating.

I also hooked up a wire to the diagnostics connector and confirmed there are no error codes being generated. The engine light simply blinks constantly about twice per second, exactly the same with and without the eManage wired in.

Also after revving the engine to 6K and seeing the timing display on the eManage go to negative numbers, I can rev it again and mivec still activates normally and it still appears to rev normally.

So I really think this must be a logging bug with the eManage. Just wish I could find someone else who could verify this for me. I think I'm just going to assume it is all good, schedule a day at the track and test it.

Thoughts anyone? Ben any ideas?

[Shane001]

More testing today but still no change...

Now controlling Mivec from the eManage, and logging knock and air intake temps. So I've got the thing setup exactly as I want it, just this niggling little issue that's pissing me off

[Shane001]

Finally some good news! I received an email back from Trust Japan tonight basically confirming that there is a bug in the logging software that does exactly what I'm experiencing, displays the timing value minus 120 degrees. Apparently it doesn't do it for all vehicles which is one of the reasons it's taking them so long to resolve.

Anyway so it looks like all is good to hit the track and tune er up! Only problem now is my missus crashed the f**king tow car today

Thankfully no one hurt and we're insured, but by the time you pay excess, hire car for a couple of weeks, etc, well there's nearly a grand blown.... Such is life....