Removing as much weight from an FTO GPX

mxysxy · Post by **mxysxy** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:00 pm

Seeing that Arial Atom car, and realising that dropping the weight is one of the best and cheapest way to increase performance, I am thinking for a project to start late next year.
Keep in mind that I am planning to use this car for track purposes only.

Here are few related questions;
- I am estimating that it should be possible to remove around 250kgs from an FTO GPX, is this under or overrated?
- Is it possible to take out the whole dash?
- What is the weight comparison of lightweight bonnet and boot lid, compared to stock?
- How many kgs of sound deafening material used in an FTO in stock format? Also is this scrapable?
- What/Where should I contact to get lightweight (plastic?) side windows?
- What does a full roll cage weights?

I am planning to remove aircon and power steering, including all the piping and junk that comes with these two systems. This is mainly to reduce the drag cause from the a/c, and gain the power back from constant power steering application. Also bit more weight saving.
- Does anybody tried to use an FTO without power steering? How does it feel?
- How much gain should I expect from removing a/c and power steering from crankshaft pulley?
- It seems that only thing I need to do is to remove the belt (both runs from the same belt) and unscrew a/c and power steering, is this correct?

- Apart from removing seats, everything in the boot, all the unnecessary interior bits and lightweight rims, where else I can save some weight from (I also donâ€™t want to eat lettuce for a whole year).

Post by **Bennoz** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:49 pm

my answers in bold

- I am estimating that it should be possible to remove around 250kgs from an FTO GPX, is this under or overrated?

Optimistic - the thing is only 1200keg anyway. I think you'd be fighting to get 100kgs out

- Is it possible to take out the whole dash?

Yes, but there goes any chance of registration.
Most full-on race guys do this, they just wire up the essential gauges

- What is the weight comparison of lightweight bonnet and boot lid, compared to stock?

You may loose 5-10kgs. If you dont want to go to massive expense & are not going to re-register it, you can remove the inner sheet metal backing to the bonnet & boot. You'll loose the structural integrity of the part, but will be much lighter - again some race guys do this.

- How many kgs of sound deafening material used in an FTO in stock format? Also is this scrapable?

I dont think there is much - but yes, it would be scrappable.

- What/Where should I contact to get lightweight (plastic?) side windows?

Most plastic manufactures can do this for you - get 3mm clear acrylic cut & moulded to size. Places like 'All plastics' in Sydney can do that kind of work - again a non-registerable mod.

- What does a full roll cage weights?

Full on alloy race cages can be as light as 2kgs.... if you can afford the bill!

I am planning to remove aircon and power steering, including all the piping and junk that comes with these two systems. This is mainly to reduce the drag cause from the a/c, and gain the power back from constant power steering application. Also bit more weight saving.
- Does anybody tried to use an FTO without power steering? How does it feel?

A car designed to use power steering is a dog without - the ratio's of all the cogs on the steering rack are designed smaller - as they will be fluid assisted. Try rolling the car down a hill (with it turned off) and thats what it would feel like. You would have to go with an electric pump

- How much gain should I expect from removing a/c and power steering from crankshaft pulley?

technically you wont 'gain' power as such - you will be taking load of the crank. It will feel similar to a lightened flywheel. The motor will spin up quicker & rev more freely

- It seems that only thing I need to do is to remove the belt (both runs from the same belt) and unscrew a/c and power steering, is this correct?

Yep. But before you unscrew the air-con - release the gas from the valve first (its located just behind the drivers head light) otherwise you'll get a nasty surprise when un-doing the lines.

- Apart from removing seats, all the unnecessary interior bits and lightweight rims, where else I can save some weight from (I also donâ€™t want to eat lettuce for a whole year).

I'd be looking at things like uneccesary sheet metal - like after removing the rear seat - cut out the whole sheet it was attached to. Metal brackets (like the one that holds the jack in) add up to a fair bit if you remove them all. Obvious things like speakers, sterio, passenger seat, carpet, glove box etc etc will add up as well.

mxysxy · Post by **mxysxy** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:09 pm

Thanks Ben,
Some great info there,

Bennoz wrote: my answers in bold
- I am estimating that it should be possible to remove around 250kgs from an FTO GPX, is this under or overrated?
Optimistic - the thing is only 1200keg anyway. I think you'd be fighting to get 100kgs out

Last weekend I did a bit of a trial run.
Removed all the junk constantly I carry in the boot(fishing&shooting gear), sub & box, space saver tyre, door panels, back seats and glove box and the girtfriend. I weight all the items which was just over 75kgs.
Did a road test, and couldnt believe the performance difference.
Car revs quicker and accelerates faster.

Post by **Bennoz** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:31 pm

Ahh I gotcha. I was sorta coming from a point of view that all the easy to remove bits were already out. Its going on from there that gets a bit tricky.

But yeah, you're onto a good thing. Weight loss is the key to going quick. 1kg less will get you down a strip faster than 1kw more

mxysxy · Post by **mxysxy** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:39 pm

hahahaha,
just realised wind screen wiper holds about 3lts of water
Thats another 3kgs.

mxysxy · Post by **mxysxy** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:41 pm

I honestly starting to think that it might be possible to bring weight of the car under 1ton.

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:17 pm

mind as well take out your I.C.E

and door panel, and trimming, carpets....etc

Post by **Supplanter** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:48 pm

I saw this done in a VW forum a few years ago, but to the extreme...

by the end of it the car (an all show no go riced up honda) was almost doing 13s quarters

Most of what they did was just weight reduction too...

no roof (removed with an angle grinder), no doors, no windows, the back half was cut off, no interior... and it was running on spacesaver wheels

tarkus · Post by **tarkus** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:34 pm

there is a plastic supply company in Bayswater "Profile Plastics" 9761 2180

you can shape the perspex easy enough with a heat gun, I have made new stereo lids like this when kids (& drunks) have smashed them. The door glass has only a small bend in it so that should be easy. The windscreen and back window I would leave as they give a lot of strength.

And an idea for the bonnet / boot lid, why not try a 1m/m sheet of alluminium cut to shape and 3 or 4 turn buckle screws down each side.

You could probably bend this to a reasonable shape, but how near would it need to be to still be an FTO.

smaller fuel tank would loose a lot as well.

Cya Tarkus

if ya need any help send me a PM

mxysxy · Post by **mxysxy** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:10 pm

tarkus wrote:smaller fuel tank would loose a lot as well.

This is a great idea for the second phase of the project, which is the costly bits to remove weight.

I am getting more positive on dropping the weight under 1 ton.

Just from the memory, that Atom car was 700kms with 2lt civic engine.

So, how does 980kgs 2 lt V6 Mivec sounds like? Any idea what the performance whould be like?

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:08 am

I think manufacturers weights are quite optimistic.
I think a FTO would weigh more than stated in the manual etc.

I weighed my car (a 2 door CE lancer with the FTO V6) and it came in at 1120kg.

Now, a standard lancer weighs according to Mitsubishi 990kg.

So I gained 130kg from the following:
V6 engine with gearbox, swaybars, strut braces, bigger brakes, bigger wheels, bigger exhaust, bodykit etc

I mean, it almost sounds reasonable but I don't think so. I think my car weighed more than 990kg to begin with so I think an FTO weighs more than 1150kg. My car is quite a lot quicker than an FTO as well which could only really mean that I carry significantly less weight than an FTO

Weigh your car to see where you started from.
And let me know what sort of weight reduction you are doing as I would be interested to reduce the weight of my car as well.

Unfortunately though I want my car both comfortable and light, and I have added sound deadening and stuff into the car.

Another thing to reduce weight is a lightweight battery? Lightweight seats? Although this is all a handfull of kg for quite a price

p13nox · Post by **p13nox** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:15 am

I have a carbon boot lid on order, so I'll let you know the weight saving there when it turns up.

I am also going for a lightweight battery and CF bonnet in the future.

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:55 am

You can also scrape off the sounds deadening tar that is on the floor and in the boot.

RedlineGX · Post by **RedlineGX** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:25 pm

spetz wrote:I think manufacturers weights are quite optimistic.
I think a FTO would weigh more than stated in the manual etc.

I weighed my car (a 2 door CE lancer with the FTO V6) and it came in at 1120kg.

Bare in mind that most manufacturers quote dry weight, (not sure with the FTO) but when you ad fuel, oil, fluids, coolant etc it can increase significantly.
A small dry cell battery and less fuel is one easy and inexpensive way to save weight.

Chiangstar · Post by **Chiangstar** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:30 pm

carbon fibre panels

or if you wanna get really serious, go on a diet

if its purely for race, then just get rid of absolutely everything... bear in mind that it might have an effect on your weight balance and handling though

simon

mxysxy · Post by **mxysxy** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:05 pm

Black_FTOGPX wrote:You can also scrape off the sounds deadening tar that is on the floor and in the boot.

Bit of research and I have come to realise that average car has around 20-30kgs of sound deafening material attached to it.
So, at least another 20kgs to save here

Chiangstar · Post by **Chiangstar** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:03 pm

i'd be real interested to see if you can find 20kg of sound deadening material in the fto...

if its there it doesnt seem to do much anyway ...

simon

RichardH · Post by **RichardH** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:50 pm

...and take that MIVEC plastic engine cover off while you're at it. Windscreen squirty bottle... chuck it. Passenger side windscreen wiper... ditch.

- Rich

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:10 am

RichardH wrote:...and take that MIVEC plastic engine cover off while you're at it. - Rich

Thats actually a real good idea, i think it just holds heat in the engine anyway. So you might actually gain a minute amount of power taking it off. like point 0.01kw

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:19 am

full Titanium exhaust system