engine mods what next ?

shue · Post by **shue** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:44 pm

hi,
ive completed the exaust bits, ie muffler, hi flo and extractors as well as sorted the air intake and cai now. what else can i do to the engine to get more performance out of it. dont tell me turbo or supercharger coz i want to keep it n/a. i was thinkin larger tb and manifold package from rpw and port and polish heads as the next step. what other engine mods can i do other than that.?

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:09 pm

You still haven't got any after market ECU/Piggy back right Shue?

Use the 6A13 2.5L as the bottom end. RPW charge around $10k for it.

Change to a more aggressive CAM, stronger Piston, again RPW do them too, I know the CAM are around $2k mark for parts only.

Sky is limit if you got the cash, the downside would be you lose the day to day drivability, & fuel consumption

shue · Post by **shue** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:38 pm

nah no piggyback yet. was plannin on that as the last mod.

Post by **Bennoz** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:27 pm

I'd be doing that first... you got the basic mods, now you gotta tune to suit. Any further mods can then be retuned to suit.

EURO · Post by **EURO** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:41 pm

but if he is planning more mods.... then he will have to return piggyback - and each time he does that it costs $$$ ?

Post by **Bennoz** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:55 pm

Well, once you've forked out for the intial install, then each tune is just a dyno run.

EURO · Post by **EURO** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:07 pm

hrmm, ok,

i thought some tuning could cost a lot of money - or is that more so the initial tune ? and obviously more expensive with turbos etc?

Post by **Bennoz** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:47 pm

Yeah the intial tune is the biggest. Especially after adding things like extrators & CAI. Once your ignition timing & A/F ratios are done over all maps points of rpm range, your set. Then really all you need play with is A/F ratios.

Turbo pressure requires a whole heap more mapping, hence the extra time & cost.

The guys at Unique have done mine a few times. Its $140 / hour for a power tune. Its never taken longer than 2 hours (that was the initial tune)

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:50 pm

Is all the same whether N/A or Turbo, dyno tune are base on per hr.

EURO · Post by **EURO** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:36 pm

ah ok, my mates r32 cost around $800 when he had his turbo upgraded and a few other things done. He is a guy out at bayswater who most of the skyliner and 180sx guys use.... thats why i thought you would only get a piggyback once all other mods are done.

shue · Post by **shue** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:34 pm

yea thats what i tought. every retune would cost me $$, only reason i've held off gettin a piggyback. ok what others things can i do , remember i dont want to spend tons on money so im not changing my engine , gettin a turbo or anything along the lines of that.
so next possible mods
1. rpw tb+ manifold package
2. port and polish heads
3. piggyback
4. ?????
do u reakon gettin a apexi power fc instead of a greddy emanage would be better. isnt it a stand alone comp? im kinda bad a techy stuff so if im wrong there dont shoot me down

kid_dynamite · Post by **kid_dynamite** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:52 pm

Good luck finding a PFC Shue I've been looking for one for FTO for ages never seen one come up. BTW can't remember if you have a tip or not but the FTO PFCs are designed for manual only.

Any piggyback ECU should be sufficient, such as:
e-manage (and e-manage ultimate)
Apexi S-AFC II or V-AFC II
etc etc

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:43 pm

I would really go an e-manage to be honest.
They are so cheap (relatively) and have such great control and expandability

As far as engine mods go, everyone has stated everything, unfortunately it all costs heaps of $$$.

I think one of the greatest let downs of the FTO for acceleration is the gear ratio's. 1st to 2nd is really bad.
If 2nd all the way to 4th was shorter, it would accelerate a lot better to the top speed of 4th, and then leave 5th standard for highway speeds. Realistically I think this would make a greater performance difference than cams would for about the same price.

Unfortunately I don't know how good your 400m times would be though as you would probably need to get into 5th by the end and that would kill the times. But say 4th did 160-170 km/h, it would be plenty quick for street driving or occassional red light drag

Boris · Post by **Boris** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:44 pm

How about some suspension/brake/chassi mods? And weight reduction.
That would be my next step anyway.

I don't know what you have for suspension, so sorry if you have already done that.

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:47 pm

I'm sending my spare TB & intake manifold away this week to get a quote, so it would interesting to see how much its going to cost to have them oversized & ported locally in VIC compare to sending it to RPW in WA.

What Boris said are very important, whatâ€™s the point of going faster if your car can't handle it or not able stop in time. My first "performance" mod was actually my brakes & suspension. Everything else was after.

With Dyno tune, my theory is, if you got just one or two mods, I wouldnâ€™t be bother. But if you have the mod like what you had now Shue, wouldn't you want them to run properly rather then saving a bit of money? Because you might not be optimising the mods & wasting fuel if itâ€™s running rich, or worst if you running lean, which can damage you engine. So how much money are you actually saving at the end of the day? Probably not much.

I was running rich when I had the same mod you had now Shue, & I can see the fuel consumption different & also gained 10kwatw with SAFC after a dyno tune.

BuCkEt · Post by **BuCkEt** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:23 pm

How about some suspension/brake/chassi mods? And weight reduction.

Carbon fibre is your friend.

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:17 pm

Your expensive friend...

SG · Post by SG » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:31 pm

shue wrote:yea thats what i tought. every retune would cost me $$, only reason i've held off gettin a piggyback. ok what others things can i do , remember i dont want to spend tons on money so im not changing my engine , gettin a turbo or anything along the lines of that.
so next possible mods
1. rpw tb+ manifold package
2. port and polish heads
3. piggyback
4. ?????

get a FPR (fuel pressure regulator) before piggyback or at the same time, and if you already have a CAI, and its not taking air from a gap in the front bumper, thats another mod for maybe 1 or 2 hp...

another one is thermal insulator manifold gaskets that go between throttle body and intake manifold, and i think the intake manifold and the head. ..which keeps temps down, and more cooler air going in the motor when its warm...so another 1 or 2hp maybe

and ngk twin-spark mivec plugs, maybe 0.5hp

whatever gets the air into the cylinders cooler & faster

engine mods after that cost too much

cb · Post by cb » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:06 pm

Yeah you could always get that extra power.. Its no secret FTO's arent exactly a lethal weapon when it comes to torque. But i'd be lookin more into the whole grip situation i've seen fto's that have had heaps and heaps of money poured into them for power and didnt get that much quicker due to the lack of grip the poor little Fwd's have.

shue · Post by **shue** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:28 pm

I'm sending my spare TB & intake manifold away this week to get a quote, so it would interesting to see how much its going to cost to have them oversized & ported locally in VIC compare to sending it to RPW in WA.

cool i wanna see the results of that

What Boris said are very important, whatâ€™s the point of going faster if your car can't handle it or not able stop in time. My first "performance" mod was actually my brakes & suspension. Everything else was after.

yep those would happen before the rest of the engine mods, new brakes and my suspension is on my list as well. ive already got lowered springs and my suspension is bouncy or spongy atm , sorry bad description but that how it feels. lol . thinkin of doing something like ben's suspension set up coz i havent got the $$ to go all out with coil overs etc and get dba's all around as well

With Dyno tune, my theory is, if you got just one or two mods, I wouldnâ€™t be bother. But if you have the mod like what you had now Shue, wouldn't you want them to run properly rather then saving a bit of money? Because you might not be optimising the mods & wasting fuel if itâ€™s running rich, or worst if you running lean, which can damage you engine. So how much money are you actually saving at the end of the day? Probably not much.

I was running rich when I had the same mod you had now Shue, & I can see the fuel consumption different & also gained 10kwatw with SAFC after a dyno tune.

ive got like 3 mods bro, pod , extractors and the hi flo. lol. but yea i see your point. i'll get a fpr fitted up when my car goes for a service next along with new plugs, leads etc . u reakon a safc should do as a piggyback or do i just get an emanage, considering costs. the safc is about 400$ and the emanage is around 600$ or 700$ but i think i'll hold off the piggyback for a bit till i get the manifold and tb done . let me know how u go with the tb and manifold though. have u got the heads ported and polished as well in your car at the moment? what kinda gains can u expect with that?